Predator 420cc on a Kandi Spyder 150gka-2 Question on Ratios

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landuse

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Indeed. And I found an 8 tooth sprocket! Send me your address and I can mail your 9 tooth back to you.

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

So....it broke :mad2:

Nothing I replaced at least. The jackshaft on the torque converter broke, which damaged the bearings and overheated the chain. So now the chain binds and has multiple spots that doesn't like to easily move.

The jackshaft on my 30 series looked different than any I've seen. Once it broke I understood why. I'm guessing the end the c clip goes on was damaged or not working right and the guy I bought the buggy from, welded a bolt on the end of the jackshaft to hold it on.

The weld broke and the outside bearing fell out somewhere. That must have put pressure on the inside bearing because now it's stuck on the jackshaft.

I drove it around the yard (5 acres) once and checked the bolts. Then drive it around a few more times and that was it. I stopped because every once and awhile I'd feel a shake. That's when I seen all this. But everything's on the torque converter was really hot. Guessing the chain was damaged from the high heat. No discoloration on anything and everything else looks good.

Looks like new jackshaft, 2 bearings, and a chain....for a torque converter I'm planning on replacing at some point. Oh well.

I found the jackshaft on BMI Karts. Just got to figure out the bearing sizes.

Ugh!!!! At least when you get this sorted out you can enjoy your toy. Well done on getting this far :D
 

gr8hairy1

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Here's a picture of the "broken" end of the jackshaft.

At least the back plate doesn't look any worse for the wear. The good news is the belt still looks new. Last time I drove it about this much, with the previous ratios, it was already showing signs of wear.
 

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gr8hairy1

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I got all the parts in!

Or at least I thought I did.

I bought this jackshaft:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Torque-Con...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

and these bearings for it:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-AB...var=511666427984&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I did not take enough time to check every measurement. There was a limited time 20% off for father's day on eBay. Usually, I take longer to check all the details, but this one got rushed.

The jackshaft -is 5/8's- but only for the driven pulley portion. The bearing portion is thicker by about a millimeter (I don't have a micrometer, just holding it up to some measuring tape).

I thought about taking it somewhere to get it turned and a new c-clip getting put on it, but I really didn't want to find a place. I've looked before with the discs (drive plate adapters) and found nothing. Each place I called was out of business or they never returned my messages.

Technically, the description on eBay isn't wrong (it does say 17mm and I should've thought about seeing the step-up shoulder ¯\_(ツ)_/¯), but it is sort of misleading because it says it is part number 22. And it would take awhile to get the money back, plus I'd be losing the 20% I saved on it.

So I decided to find some bearings that fit. That led me to these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-Prem...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

They should arrive tomorrow. I'm hoping they fit. I may need to slightly enlarge the area were they go into the toque converter backplate, but I'm going to try and avoid that. I know it's supposed to be a tight fit, just as long as it doesn't break anything.

Here's a few pictures showing the old and new jackshafts. The bearings won't slide onto the 5/8's part of the jackshaft. Maybe the anodizing added just enough thickness, because it is really really close. At least the driven pulley slides on perfectly.
 

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gr8hairy1

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It is running! Got a photo of me and my driving buddy. He loves "helping" me fix things. To say the least, he was super excited when I drove the buggy up to the front of our house and he saw it was finally working. A big thank you to everyone who has helped me get this far!!

Yay!
.....and I lost the 8t sprocket. Somehow between the jackshaft breaking and waiting for all the parts to come in, it disappeared. I'm not neurotic, but I usually have no problem keeping track of things. I have no idea where it could be.

It is currently using the 9t sprocket.

I had a few issues. I'm guessing the ratio is the main problem due to the 30 series torque converter? (except for the driver pulley)

The cover for the driver pulley would spin, even with the bolt tight. I doubled the bigger washer and that stopped it from spinning on it's own. But I noticed it developed a... as best as I can describe it, a secondary engagement. It would start moving fine and around 4-7mph it would kick in it like "now it is engaging". I removed the washer I added, the cover can now spin on it's own, and that secondary engagement is gone. Any advice/info would be appreciated.

Also, the belt seems to be having a rough time. It's not terrible, but for having only been 1 hour, seems rough. With the 8t it seemed there was no wear at all, but it was also only driven for a shorter period of time. In the pictures below you can see the belt dust on the backplate. I had wiped it down yesterday. The only other use the belt has gotten was from the few runs I did the day the jackshaft broke. All the pictures of the belt were taken at the same time, just a difference of flash and no flash (I know I included a lot of photos of the installed belt, but I was having trouble getting my phone to focus on the belt). There was also a point it sounded like the belt "squealed" (this was after I had removed the second washer that I had added on the driver pulley bolt/crankshaft bolt). But it was very short and stopped before I could let off the gas. I was accelerating when it happened. Yes, it is an asymmetrical belt and the flat side is installed facing the back plate. When I got the belt I bought 2 and I included a picture of the one I have yet to use to help better be able to compare the wear on the current belt.

I drove it maybe 1 hour total with stopping in between to check on how everything was going - stopped between 5 to 10 minutes. Using a gps app I got a top speed of 29mph. Most of the time I didn't go over 23-24mph, cruising speed was around 13-15mph. I only drove it around our 5 acres of grass. Even so, the chain came off the sprocket once. Seems like it's was from stretching. It is a new chain. I moved the engine maybe a quarter inch and all was good. That was toward the end as we had some rain moving in. Is it normal for a chain to stretch that quick?

Also, EVERYTHING was very hot. The belt was too hot to touch and everything all around the engine. When I was loosening the engine mount bolts to adjust chain tension, even the wrench heads were starting to get really warm. Is that normal? The most it was drove continuously was about 10 minutes. I obviously have no experience with riding go karts :innocent:
 

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gr8hairy1

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Update:
Drove it a few minutes today and it seems to be developing a worse stutter during acceleration. Not the secondary acceleration I was talking about, but almost some jumping and jerking just after it starts moving. Once it's going it doesn't happen again.
 

bob58o

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If you've got a 30 series with the big tires, I assume that is an issue.
Could you recap? Engine? Tire Size? Gear Ratio? TC type?

I probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble of repairing the 30 series, but take off the driveR unit and take it apart. Look inside.

Show us your pics.
 

gr8hairy1

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Update update lol
I know, a lot of posts in row. As an unrelated FYI, I teach English online full time 40+ hours a week. When the students are boring I check out diygokarts while I can still talk to them in the background. To be fair, I'm not teaching technical English grammar....and I still get good ratings....so yeah. Anywho, that's why I've been commenting so much. It's my new way to get through the day. Slow days on diygokarts are ROUGH lol.
:backtotopic:

But this issue of the weird stutter, that doesn't seem to be engine related, has got me thinking.... maybe the engagement points for the driver and driven pulley aren't in cahoots (technical English term there). Ultimately, I'm guessing one or both aren't functioning properly and for whatever reason not smoothly moving. Need some gopro's to video what's going on behind me when I take off. Or a friend to video it ...lol! Yeah....getting a gopro is much more realistic.

I haven't fully taken them apart, but they seem ok. Times the belt has been on and off the different parts of the driver pulley seems to move really well. I do have a spare driven pulley I can put on it. I suppose that'll be my next step unless anyone has some other ideas.

Everything "seems" good, I can't figure it out. Bolts are tight (though cover of driver still spins -still don't know about that), belt and chain seem to be lined up just right, engine mount bolts are tight, bearings on axle are good, I can see the front tires clearly and they look fine. All things drive train seem good.

---------- Post added at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 PM ----------

If you've got a 30 series with the big tires, I assume that is an issue.
Could you recap? Engine? Tire Size? Gear Ratio? TC type?

I probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble of repairing the 30 series, but take off the driveR unit and take it apart. Look inside.

Show us your pics.

Yes yes. A recap would be good. There have been lots of posts with details spread all over the place. Good thinking Bob-O.

I bought this from the original owner off Craigslist.
Vehicle
Kandi Spyder (KD-150GKA-2) made in 2013
Engine
Predator 420cc (Previous owner welded on a standard engine mount plate and installed the engine) He had a 10t on the T/C and a 42t on the axle
T/C
30 series torque converter from GoPowerSports. (Previous owner said they recommended it - he said at the time GoPowerSports did not have a 40 series...so yeah)
Tires
Front: 21x7-10
Rear: 22x11-10 Measures 21 inches top to bottom with a measuring tape
Gear Ratio
Currently 6.6 (9t on T/C and 60t on axle). 8t is still MIA. 8t would be 7.5. No secondary jackshaft (would love a jackshaft)


I agree, fixing the 30 series feels like an insult to this size of buggy. But...94c + 770-790 setup is mucho expensive.

If the spare driven I have is good, at least I'll only have to worry about the driver. Weights and springs I'm guessing (if needed).

Here's the pictures of the driver and driven.
I rotated the driver 180°, that's why it looks like there's a double.
The driven has an original green spring on it. But as you can see, there's not much green left. I have it set on the third hole so it opens easier. I figure that would put less strain on the belt.
The spare driven I have has a red spring.

I'll see about cleaning them tomorrow. Though, I have no dry lubricant. May wait to reinstall them until I get some.
 

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Randy H

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gr8hairy1

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No worries. Thank you for letting me know. I've been confused by this driven, but I guess that's because most 30 series driver units I've seen pictures of are not the 1".

I was just getting ready to ask a question about it. So you answered it before I could ask it.

While cleaning the pulleys, I was wondering why my hub that slides back and forth had 8 splines while all the other ones I've seen only have 4 splines. I've noticed it before, but I figured it was just a different revision. But now I know it's because it's what comes with the 1" driver pulley.

What is the difference between the 3/4" driver and 1" driver, aside from the obvious? What's the purpose?
 

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gr8hairy1

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I'm not dead and haven't given up on this buggy!
I had it up and running a little bit (maybe 2 weeks), but even with the improved ratio and comet belt, the 30 series just isn't enough with the size of this buggy and engine. It's pretty quickly going through the belt.

Good news/bad news
Good news:
I now have a 44 series torque converter.....

Bad news:
.....but the setup on the rear can't fit the 44 series. Plus, adding a jackshaft would help get the axle sprocket smaller. A new rear end is needed for either.

I disappeared from this site for awhile because I started working way more and now I recently started a different job. I still need to get a welder, but the good news is at my new job I have access to a lot of scrap metal. Hopefully soon I'll be making some progress on this. My goal is making some significant progress the begining of next year....though that sure is coming fast ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'll do what I can.

Also, I haven't forgotten about testing various rear tire width setups to see the torque difference it puts on the steering. That is still 100% planned on being done!
 
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