Predator 420 Mod Discussion/Input

fuzzy

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I'm not a regular poster, more of a watcher on the forum always trying to learn.

Attached a pic of the kart my daughters and I built, pic is from first assembly so she is clean. Has been lots of fun, main issues have been needing to add reinforcing to the steering tab on the king pins and then getting the chain alignment just right so it doesn't pry on the half-link. Also added more lighting for nighttime visibility. We have treater her rough and taken a lot of places and all has been reliable.

Starting out, it would do about 42 mph on flat pavement. Then modified with ARC adjustable billet flywheel, Paul's Hot Coil, 36mm Chikuni carb, we built exhaust header, changed to medium springs in CVT, and disconnected the governor. That got us to top out at 50 mph on flat pavement and much better acceleration. 50ish is top speed this thing should go, we want more low end grunt for mud and climbing. Once more mods are made we will change axle sprocket to keep her around 50.

As you can see, Predator 420 Hemi. We want to mod. When we do internal mods I want to do it all at the same time.
Concerns:
1. I use non-ethanol gas in all my small engines so 91 octane and don't want to be above a 10.5 to 11 CR. I wouldn't mind octane additive, but definitely don't want to run into using methanol. 420 Hemi literature says stock CR is 8.3. Question here is, without doing all the volume checks does anyone have a feel for how far the mods below will affect this? No matter what, we will end up doing the calcs as a learning exercise.
2. Do the mods planned below jibe together? Is there an inbalance in spring to cam selection?
3. I can't find data for the stock crank capacity/strength on a 420 Hemi, and can't find anyone online definitively stating changing out the crank. Does this need to be changed for mid-20s hp?

Plans for mod:
1. 280 Camshaft with a 811 grind from NRC
2. ARC 6274 con rod. This will give zero deck height. (not sure this is a great idea without having taken engine apart and measuring. Greater control of the outcome could come from getting the 6272 (stock length) and then milling especially given the ratio rockers)
3. 1.3:1 billet ratio rockers
4. New chromoly push rods
5. New stainless valves
6. 54 lb single HD springs
7. Will upgrade bearings in housing (but not to ceramic $$$).
8. All the ancillary items will be swapped for new
9. We will port the stock head

This may just come down to tearing her down and making measurements then ordering parts instead of ordering then building. Looking for input from experienced builders. Wanting to achieve mid-20s hp. Would expect to eventually break the series 40 CVT and have to upgrade.
 

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Whitetrashrocker

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Your on the right track.
You can buy parts and throw them together from other known builds.
But,... your best thing to do is, pull it apart, take measurements, clay the PtV and make your build upon your specific tolerances.
This way you know exactly what's happening.

Not sure if 20hp will kill a 40 series.
I have a 301 nearing that hp level and the cvt has shown absolutely no signs of being weak.
 

panchothedog

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Are you aware that with the hemi head configuration the lower, or leading edge of the valves is a LOT closer to the top of the piston when they are open. This is due to the fact that they sit on an angle. Those 1.3 to 1 rockers could be a problem with the valves hitting the piston. NR racing sells nice ( powerful ) non hemi heads for your engine. Most builds using high lift cams and ratio rockers do so with a non hemi head for reasons stated above. If you aren't into shelling out the bucks for a racing head, milling .050" off your stock head, porting it ( especially the intake side ) and installing the stiffer valve springs will help a lot. Be careful with a longer than stock rod, as you must maintain a minimum of .030" between the top of the piston and the head. That might cause you to have to run a thicker head gasket, which hurts compression. Your crankshaft and torque converter will handle anything you can throw at them. The 40 series torque converters really respond well to the light weights and stiffer springs.
 

Darren

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Crank-mad mods may break a crank, standard stuff and a CV, crank good for anything you throw at it
Rod will fail due to lack of oil, ARC rod designed for higher flow around shells
Flywheel is designed for safe up to 4000rpm, we run a kart up to 6000rpm with out problems, it's electric start and charging.
ARC flywheel, safe+already set to 32BTDC and light.
Port head for improved air flow, this will match up to a good exhaust and carb, don't go to big with the carb, look at around 90% of inlet valve area.
Good standard coil will be fine, make sure not rev restrictive
Compression is your friend, 10.5:1 will give you more bang for your buck.
Throwing money at an engine doesn't always reap any reward, All Gx style engines are built to fit in a limited space, We don't necessarily have such a restriction, a free flowing head opens up the engine even if restricted to 4000rpm with a relaxed governor.
You currently have a reliable engine, extreme mods can make it a maintenance heavy PITA.
 

fuzzy

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Thanks for the input guys. I will end up waiting on ordering parts until completely torn down and measurements made. Mods named above come up to about $700, don't really want to add another $230 for racing head. If ratio rockers go away that saves a good bit.

When I start will make a new thread for the build.
 

Denny

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Thanks for the input guys. I will end up waiting on ordering parts until completely torn down and measurements made. Mods named above come up to about $700, don't really want to add another $230 for racing head. If ratio rockers go away that saves a good bit.

When I start will make a new thread for the build.
Why? What’s wrong with this one?
 

fuzzy

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Just trying to keep a clean thread.

Bet you are trying to keep that Comet belt comparison displayed;)
 

bob58o

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Remind me. The 0811 means 108 Intake Center line and 111 lobe separation angle?

NR has this listed as the RPM version of this cam. 10.5 : 1 Static Compression Ratio is the Minimum Recommended. Static Compression is only kinda useful. Dynamic Compression Ratio is what matters. Not only the volume sweep of the piston, but the timing of the valves determines the dynamic compression ratio.

Russel at NR does a good job of describing which static CR works best with his camshafts.
Long story short, I wouldn’t be too worried about the octane with the 108 ICL. The 102 needs 11:1 or Lower. The 108 likes higher CR’sIMG_7846.png
 

Big Bob

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With those valve springs make sure you got the larger 6.5 mm valve stems. IIRC the hemis use the 6.5. My 440 duromax had 5.5 stems which scares me with HD valve springs. I could of just put in new valve guides, but instead I got a Genuine Honda head that has larger valves, 6.5 stems, was milled and ported. Price really was not so bad considering I don't have the tools or machining equipment to do it myself and shops would cost big $$$$$
 
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