Predator 224

[clueless8169]

Welllll i put the stage one kit on my little 196cc coleman go kart and i wasnt really impressed....so i bought a new predator 224 to swap onto it. I plan on going all out on this one. Beefed up torque convertor, billet everything....looking to be puttin at least 15hp down. Whats a good torque convertor for this? Has anyone else swapped one of these onto the little taotao carts coleman is pushing out?? Ill post pics as the project advances. This is going to be fun.

 

[panchothedog]

Any 30 series torque converter will work fine. When you say "Beefed up " torque converter, there really isn't such a thing. You can change springs on both the driven and the driver, as well as the weights in the driver. This will allow you to tune it to maximize performance to your setup. I wonder if you did everything correctly with the stage one kit. FWIW, I own a kart with a 196cc, two more with
212cc, and a fourth with a 224cc. Early on, on the kart with the 196cc engine, after removing the governor and installing a stage one kit I could hardly believe the difference. Kart went from a top speed of 22mph to 34 mph. Pulled hard all the way up, and put BIG smiles on both my grandsons faces.

 

[Possom Point]

Welllll i put the stage one kit on my little 196cc coleman go kart and i wasnt really impressed....so i bought a new predator 224 to swap onto it. I plan on going all out on this one. Beefed up torque convertor, billet everything....looking to be puttin at least 15hp down. Whats a good torque convertor for this? Has anyone else swapped one of these onto the little taotao carts coleman is pushing out?? Ill post pics as the project advances. This is going to be fun.

Keep in mind on the 224 you need to clearance the rod and cam, gotta do some grinding and fitting to make room for upgraded parts , I found out the hard way, was to ambitious buying aftermarket parts before I did the research , still worked out fine but just wanted to give you a heads up if you didn’t know that already. Definitely has some low end “grunt “

 

[panchothedog]

For about $10 extra you can buy ( hot rod ) cams from OMB Warehouse that have already been clearanced and won't interfere with the crankshaft, or the ARC billet
rod. But, as mentioned above, you will be grinding on the block in two or three different places to get the ARC rod to swing freely. It is quite a bit larger than the stock one. Not hard, but time consuming for sure. Lots of assembly, check, tare apart, grind some more, reassemble ect.ect. For me, the few extra dollars for the cam to be ready to just drop in was well worth it.

 

[Possom Point]

For about $10 extra you can buy ( hot rod ) cams from OMB Warehouse that have already been clearanced and won't interfere with the crankshaft,

I didn’t know this at the time I built mine…… these may have came out after I did my engine. Or just didn’t know about them…. Pancho, just for giggles for me do you have a link to those cams? I would appreciate it.

 

[panchothedog]

Being the technology dinosaur that I am, I don't know how to do that. If you go on the OMB Warehouse website, click on performance parts, and then follow it, or click on to predator 224. All of the cams that they sell that are specifically for that engine have already been clearanced. They are the same " DYNO " brand cams
( same grind and profile ) as for the other predator engines, except they have been worked on. Fit very well, almost looked like it was manufactured that way.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Keep in mind on the 224 you need to clearance the rod and cam, gotta do some grinding and fitting to make room for upgraded parts , I found out the hard way, was to ambitious buying aftermarket parts before I did the research , still worked out fine but just wanted to give you a heads up if you didn’t know that already. Definitely has some low end “grunt “

Great advice.

Sounds like you learned the way I did. And that's a tuff lesson to learn.

I will NEVER put another billet rod in a pred 224.

It's easier to keep it governored, with the stock rod, and stock plastic geared cam.

Easier, cheaper and make jus as much power by simply adding a pvl flywheel, dover power performance coil, flat top piston, 1.3:1 stamped steel rockers, 22# springs, header, a good quality bored SA carb, very mild port work to the head, and set gov to 5300 rpm.

Thats a simple recipe for more torq to the tires and money in the pocket.

Money won't stay in the pocket very long.........remember that torq to the tires????

That's right......you will need new rear tires sooner then you think,

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Being the technology dinosaur that I am, I don't know how to do that. If you go on the OMB Warehouse website, click on performance parts, and then follow it, or click on to predator 224. All of the cams that they sell that are specifically for that engine have already been clearanced. They are the same " DYNO " brand cams
( same grind and profile ) as for the other predator engines, except they have been worked on. Fit very well, almost looked like it was manufactured that way.

You are right.

They the same grind as other small blocks, jus made specifically for the 58mm stroke crankshafts.

There's still some clearance issues, but not near as bad as a regular 196, 208, or 212 grind.

IMHO, all those grinds are way to big for every day, fun time, back yard, mud hole stomping, stump pulling cams.

Take a look at the intake valve closing point.
The smallest is too much for a 10:1 CR engine running 87 octane fuel at less then 6000 rpm.

Intake valve closing around 65*-70* ABDC, works much better for low CR engines.

Racing Cams and Parts | 224cc Cams | DynoCams

224cc Cams

www.dynocams.com

 

[Darren]

Have a look at my 265 thread, I go through the clearances required with an ARC rod and NR racing 274 cam. You can see in the video how easy it was to address.
D

 

[Rat]

Stage kits are for newbs and lazy f☆cks that can't be bothered to put the real work in, or can't be bothered to learn how to wake an engines inner beast.

 

[panchothedog]

BrownStainRacing. I am well aware that you are no fan of any of the dyno cam products. Those 265 turd cams if I remember correctly. No argument from me that the Isky cams sold by small engines cams inc. are probably better. I don't know, I have never run one, but anything connected to ISKY carries a lot of weight with me. On the other hand, for a meseely $62 the ready to run CS grind, with it's low duration ( 225 & 236 ) and .265" lift has worked out pretty good for me. It's in a very heavy ( 340 lb. empty ) 2 seater and pulls VERY good. NO clearance problem whatsoever. You stated that you will NEVER install a billet rod again in a
224 predator. Really. I watched the Grey Goat Garage video prior to doing mine and while it took me longer than I expected, I feel like I could do a second one in half the time of the 1st. I don't know if I would be comfortable grinding away on the center of the cam, but having a feel for where, and about how much on the block wouldn't take nearly as long. I like to get rid of the governors, and. seeing how it's grandchildren driving, feel a lot better with the billet parts inside.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

BrownStainRacing. I am well aware that you are no fan of any of the dyno cam products. Those 265 turd cams if I remember correctly. No argument from me that the Isky cams sold by small engines cams inc. are probably better. I don't know, I have never run one, but anything connected to ISKY carries a lot of weight with me. On the other hand, for a meseely $62 the ready to run CS grind, with it's low duration ( 225 & 236 ) and .265" lift has worked out pretty good for me. It's in a very heavy ( 340 lb. empty ) 2 seater and pulls VERY good. NO clearance problem whatsoever. You stated that you will NEVER install a billet rod again in a
224 predator. Really. I watched the Grey Goat Garage video prior to doing mine and while it took me longer than I expected, I feel like I could do a second one in half the time of the 1st. I don't know if I would be comfortable grinding away on the center of the cam, but having a feel for where, and about how much on the block wouldn't take nearly as long. I like to get rid of the governors, and. seeing how it's grandchildren driving, feel a lot better with the billet parts inside.

Jus so we stay on the same page, all my builds get ONLY Dyno Cams valve train parts, except for the camshaft. Most get pistons from Dyno Cams.

The CS grind is not a bad cam, it's more of a mid to high range cam. Jus like MOST of the Dyno Cams for track racing.

Look at the specs

Add the intake close and intake open points together, then add 180.
Thats the advertised duration (usally.004"-.006") of the camshaft for the intake side.

Now subtract the .050" duration from the advertised duration and that number is what makes a much better cam in a broader rpm range. The lower the number, the more power you will get out of the cam in the WHOLE rpm range, not jus mid and high.

Heres the bp2 grind. Do the math compared to the CS grind, and you will see what a difference that number will be. The bp2 will bring the valves off seat and back on seat much quicker, making power come in much quicker, rev fast thur the mid and get to the high side of the range much faster, creating a broader, USABLE power range.

Even tho it has more .050" duration, it's a much better cam for the WHOLE rpm range.

People shy away from the bp2 cam because of the stock lift, but it works great for all types of terrain, not jus flat tracks, with tiny people, running small tires.

Racing Cams and Parts | BP2 Grind, Clone, Hemi | BP2-HT | DynoCams

Explore a World of Parts: Find the Components You Need for Your Projects. From Mechanical to Electronic, Discover a Vast Selection of High-Quality Parts to Fuel Your Creativity. | BP2-HT

www.dynocams.com

Here's a small ECCarbs cam, do the math, they are FAST aggressive ramped camshafts.
I don't run em because of the big spring pressures and work it takes to fit the springs correctly.

They make great power, it jus takes more money to set up the head.

But I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say.
Take care, always good to chat with you, .

TTS-689 Tennessee Thunderstix Cam for Predator 212 Hemi & Clone Style Engines

www.eccarburetors.com