predator 212 not starting, plus a strange carb mod

[ballinchestr]

I bought a used kart from a yard sale, and the engine is having some trouble. I messed around with the choke, put in some fresh gas and got it to start, but it wouldn't stay running without pressing the gas pedal. Now it won't start at all.

To top that off, the previous owner had a strange setup. there appeared to be 2 breather tubes going into the valve cover, and one of them was clearly not stock. My other kart has a stock predator, and it only has one breather. the second tube came from what kind of looked like a fuel pump or tube junction. Pics below. Also, on the stock predator, there's a tube coming from the top of the fuel tank, and it goes to the air box. Here, that tube is disconnected and ignored.

How should I go about fixing this?

 

[KartFab]

What would you consider fixed?

1) getting it running ungoverned and modified?
2) having it run governed and in stock form as the manufacturer intended?

 

[firemanjim]

What I would do is remove that fuel pump and remove all the crap lines on the engine. Then go back and plug the top hole of the valve cover. Replace the hose from stock location, to the place on the intake. Then run a line from the tank,back to carb,like stock..... Just go back stock, as much as possible. You will probably get it to start again....
Now,being that they have done all these mods, they clearly had no idea what they where doing cause you don't need a pump for stock tank set up..... You might go over the whole engine...... And the carb.... Man, the carb..... I bet the jet is HUGE...... Smh

 

[ballinchestr]

Well i'm not sure that's a pump. I've never seen one on a kart, so I wouldn't know what to look for. there's no electricity going to it or anything.

Also, there's no way I can get the original airbox back on, and frankly, I'd rather have this round filter on it. That being said, how/where should I attach the tube coming from the top of the tank?

 

[KartFab]

Also, there's no way I can get the original airbox back on

I disagree. It's probably the easiest thing to do out of all your other options.

That is a pump... That pumps runs off air pressure from the engine running. Crazy I know! Just because you haven't seen something before, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I had not seen a baja warrior engine shaft that was un tapped and threaded on the outside, but it exists and I learned a new thing a few days ago.

Also, that tube coming from the top is used to collect gas vapors and direct them to the stock air cleaner housing/carb. This is more of an environmental thing than a functional thing. (Assuming your tank lid is not airtight like most small engine kids).

So in other words, the tube from the tank top is not necessary. Since you are not going w/stock air filter housing then it's up to you to figure it out. What would you do with an unnecessary tube?

 

[firemanjim]

Well i'm not sure that's a pump. I've never seen one on a kart, so I wouldn't know what to look for. there's no electricity going to it or anything.

Also, there's no way I can get the original airbox back on, and frankly, I'd rather have this round filter on it. That being said, how/where should I attach the tube coming from the top of the tank?

Well, I KNOW that's a pump, that runs off of vacuum (not electricity, duhh) .....
My post said nothing about removing the filter and putting the stock one back on.... NO where..... I DID say how to plumb it correctly for what you have there. So if you don't want to listen to me, listen to someone else, who tells you the same thing......
I'll repeat it, maybe you didn't hear it right. Get rid of the fuel pump, and the hose that goes from it, to the valve cover. Plug that hole in valve cover. Disconnect the 2 fuel lines on that pump. One from the tank and the one going to carb. Connect the tank line straight to the carb. The other hose from valve cover to intake is fine,leave it alone.....
Do these things, and I bet your engine starts........ BUT then again, I really don't know nothing........

 

[dwcopple]

LOL^ this is gonna get good.

 

[Moedog07]

I'll make it easy, Just take off the engine and mail it to me.

Do you have a stock Predator Carb & Air box? If so I would start by swaping those out with what is on the motor just to get it to stay running.

 

[firemanjim]

Did you try any of those things I mentioned?
That pump is probably what's keeping your engine from starting. Since your tank is in the stock position, you don't need a pump. The PO obviously didn't know what he was doing. The carb is gravity fed, unless tank is below carb. With that pump on there, I'm wondering if you are actually flooding the engine. Gravity plus the pump,forcing too much fuel. If you only remove the fuel pump and put the tank line back to the carb, your engine will most likely start and run properly. Then all you need to do is plug the hole on top of the valve cover.
Put a fresh plug in the engine and run it around for a few hours. Then, pull the plug and look at it. Post a pic. I (we) can tell you if the jet is correct by reading the plug. You might find that the PO has too big a jet.
If I seem like a smart @$$, I apologize. I'm just trying to help you out. Sometimes it's best just to sit back and listen to someone who has been in the same spot, and learn from that. Since you didn't know that that was a fuel pump, nor how it worked, I assume your new at this.... Like I said, I'm just trying to help you learn from what I already know..... That's all.... Not trying to have a battle of witts.... We all come here to learn, teach, and have fun. Now, can we continue with that, please.....

 

[ballinchestr]

After returning the fuel system to stock, it starts. It also runs. If it's hot I can stop the engine and restart it without too much trouble. However, randomly when turning it off, it won't go back on. attempts to start it all were met with a VERY flooded engine. I'm talking gasoline flying out of the muffler when I pull the handle. At that point I have to pull the plug and de-flood the engine, which sometimes works.

The plug is also dripping wet when I pull it out. The plug is also not a recommended plug for the engine, so should I replace it with a stock/reccomended one?

Also, the kart is single wheel drive and it really bothers me. what would be the best and cheapest way to lock that free spinning rear wheel? the axle is not keyed on the non power side.

 

[KartFab]

So if you don't want to listen to me, listen to someone else, who tells you the same thing......

You might go over the whole engine...... And the carb.... Man, the carb..... I bet the jet is HUGE...... Smh

You might find that the PO has too big a jet.
If I seem like a smart @$$, I apologize. I'm just trying to help you out. Sometimes it's best just to sit back and listen to someone who has been in the same spot, and learn from that.

What he said: thats why your engine floods by the way.

 

[firemanjim]

Are you SURE that dude knows what he is talking about? O wait..... That's me......
Your jet is TOO big as I suspected. (see I know some things..... )
Do this first, might not cost you squat, to fix.... Open up the carb and make sure the jet is where it's supposed to be. Yes yes, I know it can only go one place, but it can also come off, causing huge amounts of fuel to rush in..... (sound familiar)
Ok if the jet is there where it should be, then run down to walmart or orielys and get a solder gun and solder. Solder up the big @$$ hole the po thought would work as a jet. Once it's soldered up, redrill using a jewelers drill bit, to the correct size.
I will post a chart for you shortly, with jet sizes and drill equivalents.....

 

[Half-breeder]

I agree w/ all of the above... (heres my way of expressing it...)

IMO...

A pulse fuel pump (on these engines) are for tanks that are below the carb inlet line. Also, pulse pumps have a tendency to being gravity weakened(not all that good at 'pushing' fuel uphill). I myself run one... and have played w/ the different locations and what works best for my engine is pump above the carb... and the tank below it.

IMO...

If you plan on keeping the fuel tank in the location it is now... take off the pump setup and straight line the tank to the carb(factory/default settings), and plugup the 2nd(none factory) outlet line off the valve cover.

If you DO NOT plan on keeping the fuel tank in the location it is now... then drop the tank, below the carb line, and raise the pump above it.

In either case... I greatly suggest using the fuel on/off switch(the one below the choke) when the engine is off... hence the reason its there.

 

[ballinchestr]

Yeah the fuel system is stock now. Next I'm gonna check the jet, just like Jim said, but it's almost running decent. The rusty old clutch burned out yesterday too, so there's that as well. Already waiting for a Hilliard one in the mail.

Actually yeah I've actually always been OCD about turning off fuel valves.

 

[ballinchestr]

Okay now I have a new problem. The new clutch's sprocket is on a different position on the shaft, and so it's out of alignment with the axle sprocket by a couple centimeters. I pulled the set screws and tried moving the sprocket on the axle but the thing is really stuck on there. I put some grease on it and hit it with a big old monkey wrench but it wouldn't budge. Is there a better way to do it?

 

[firemanjim]

Grease won't work. Need pb blaster or other lube..... Penetration oil.....
Can you not shim the clutch out to be in line, or does it need to go towards engine?

 

[ballinchestr]

I'm gonna pick up some pb blaster today.

I could shim it, but I'd have to get a longer crankshaft bolt, because the end of clutch would hang off.

 

[firemanjim]

Yeah, that's normal, bro! I got mine shimmed out a 1/2".... I used four 3/4" ID washers from homedepot. They are like .120" thick, so it worked out great...... Cost me $1.43........
EDIT just snapped. You're using a cent clutch, I was talking about a drive clutch. IIRC,your clutch should sit even with the end of the crank. Yes, you need to slide your driven sprocket over, or try the whole engine..... 2cm or 2mm??

 

[ballinchestr]

Centimeters. The PB is working, but slowly. Ive been using a torch to heat the hub a little bit too. Since it only moved a couple millimeters, i think ill let the pb sit for a couple hours and try again then.

Hopefully this hunk of junk will be running today

 

[firemanjim]

Well if you're making progress, keep at it. Yeah let it sit for a bit, and the heat helps too. Try putting a cold wet rag on both sides of the hub, but on the axle. It will draw the heat away from the axle, directly under the hub. As the axle cools , the hub stays hot, hopefully giving you the minute space you need for it to move.....