Powerland 420cc GAB 2.0

[bob58o]

New shopping list is pretty similar to old one.

So this is what I am going to do......


$140 4.45" Billet Connecting Rod
$45 90mm Flat Top Piston (Cut to be flush with the deck - around 0.017" I think)
$135 Dynocams 308 Grind (Advanced 6 Degrees) 0.308" Lift. 245* duration for 6k
$45 SS Valves
$18 Retaiers/Keepers
$25 Valve Job
$30 Mill Head (0.035") for 10.75 : 1 Static Compression Ratio
$FREE Port And Polish (done by me)
$20 HD Springs
$8 Advanced Timing Key
$28 Cr - Mo Pushrods
$88 Robertson Torque Tube H-Loop
$108 32mm Ebay Carbs with Adapter, Jet Kits, Filter, Silicone Hose

$170 420cc Engine

______________________________________________
$860

Bit more than the VC 460 and less displacement with weaker block, but included

carb adapter, carb, low jet kit, main jet kit, filter, silicon hose, ($110) and exhaust ($90), SS Valves ($43), More lift Camshaft, Flat top Piston, More Compression......

Should have good torque, broad powerband, and spin near 6000 RPM.
I might not need the SS Valves but figured they can't hurt.

 

[bob58o]

Both NR and HOPE said $150 to balance the rotating assembly.
DycoCams said He only knows two places! NR and HOPE!!! LOL
And told me to get the stroker crank if I'm removing the counter balancer thing.

$70 for stroker crank.
Is this going to be a 440cc?

THIS IS WHY I WANTED A SIMPLE BUILD.

I NEED ANOTHER JOB OR LESS EXPENSIVE ASPIRATIONS!

69mm crank.
4.41" Rod
90mm Piston Milled (0.060")

---------- Post added at 09:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------

So 80 git flap wheel on intake, then off to do some JS alignment I suppose?

 

[chancer]

Get another job. These Asirin rations are Cool.

 

[bob58o]

I found a glitch in the Matrix.

Tell me why there are two sites.

http://www.bullfrogperformanceproducts.com/

and

MOTO Sport

http://www.bullfrogmotosport.com/

and a facebook page

Bullfrog MOTOR Sports
https://www.facebook.com/Bullfrog-Motorsports-Inc-687351331357715/

Half of what I want on one site,
Half on the other.

$14 fixed shipping from each.
Why can't they combine the sites, or let me combine shipping.
Whats the name, whats the number?

 

[bob58o]

Got to break this down.
Too much money to do at once.

First step.

Howard's outoor power equipment

Valve job (stock valves) $25
Mill head 0.050" $30

$15 shipping each way.


$85

 

[bob58o]

I picked 0.050" for 33cc chamber.
Because it will give me 10:1 with stock crank and piston with 0.032" gasket.

It will give me 11:1 with stroker, flat top and 0.063" gasket.

11: 1 what I want in the long run, but later.

 

[Joe-405]

So I'm thinking about building a drift trike..................with this engine. As in buy another one and leave it basic like mine was before.

I think it would be fast and wheelie monster without PVC a few times. Haha

 

[bob58o]

8 degree offset timing key ordered $11 shipped
35lb HD Valve Springs for gx390 / 420cc ordered $16.36 shipped

 

[bob58o]

Torque Tube H Loop ordered.

Not good for High Revs.
Geared so 5000 RPM is 50 MPH

 

[bob58o]

Had to sell some stuff to get some stuff.

Comet TC sold.
Tec air filter adapter sold.
Tec straight pipe sold.

I think a DIYGK member got a good deal.
About $100 for the hole lot shipped.

 

[bob58o]

Timing Key and 35lb HD valve springs are here!!!

Next I have to send my head off in a box.

The valve seats fell victim to my head porting.
I might be able to lap them, but since I want to mill anyway, they will get a fresh cut. And the valves too. Not sure what the listed price includes. I'm hoping like 3 angle???

I'll call to find out.

Compression?????
Trying to use the stock rod. Going to keep it 5000 RPM and under, but will the extra compresson break my rod even at relatively low RPMs????????

Since I use 100 octane for the mini bike, I might as well cut the head enough to need it for the 420.

 

[bob58o]

So everything I ordered is here, but my header. I should have gotten it from Robertson Torque Tubes. I ordered via Bullfrogmotosports.com
The price was the same.

I emailed cause I couldn't find a phone number. They responded "they are running production on these Headers" and it will ship on Monday.

I know they aren't producing these so what is the deal?????
PHONE NUMBER (cause any business taking $ and selling engines with stock rods claiming something else should at least provide a phone number).

Bullfrog Motosport
www.bullfrogmotosport.com
www.facebook.com/bullfrogmotosport
812-639-7093

---------- Post added at 09:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 AM ----------

Howard's site is down, but I talked to them on the Phone.

The price ($25 or $30, I don't remember) is for a three angle valve job. He said send him the whole assembled head with springs, and retainers, and lash caps ... OH MY.

I guess I really have to decide how much compression I want.



Porting & Milling of the GX340/GX390 & 420/440 Clone cylinder heads is the single best seat-of-the-pants increase in torque you can acheive on the stock cam.

You can add milling to increase static compression ratio. Milling yields approximately a 1cc decrease per ~.007" removed. The reference numbers below are based on a stock engine:

Stock = 41cc (8.75:1 CR)
Milled 0.025" = 37cc (9.5:1 CR)
Milled 0.050" = 33cc (10.2:1 CR) *Max for 87 Octane
Milled 0.075" = 30cc (10.8:1 CR) *Max for 91 Octane
Milled 0.100" = 27cc (11.5:1 CR)
Milled 0.125" = 24cc (12.3:1 CR)
Milled 0.150" = 21cc (13.3:1 CR) *Maximum Recommended





v
v
v
1/10" it is!
100 octane, what my baby wants my baby gets!


"So for my Piston to Valve clearance....
I measured with clay, with no head gasket....

And I got 0.275".
For margin of error, let's say 0.255"
With a stock gasket, that would be more like 0.300"

Let's say we want 0.075" P2V clearance.

I've got 0.300 - 0.075 = 0.225" to play and be safe."

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

What breaks most rods is galling in the big end. Most AKRA guys seem to like rid clearance in the 2 1/2-3 thousandths to prevent galling.

 

[bob58o]

I've should be able to find the rest of plastigauge I used on the 212. I guess I could sand it bigger, but not much I could do if it is too big already.

I should just pony up and get the billet connecting rod and not worry about it.

But then I'd want a piston,
and then I'd want it machined down,
Gas Ported, Performance rings,
then a cam,
then pushrods, valves, retainers,
Flywheel....

I'm trying to avoid that.
After the head and valves, the only thing left on my shopping list was the carb stuff.
$110 gets me my adapter, a 32mm Carb, High and Low Jet Kits, Air Pod, Silicon Hose,.....

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

I totally get it, I'm seeing what I can do with mix and match stock parts. From what I've read, if you sand the rod it'll take the hardened surface off of it and you have to re harden it, which I believe should be as easy and annealing the rod and dunking it in water. I think it would make for a stronger rod anyway. I plan on trying it and seeing what happens.

 

[Poboy kartman]

I totally get it, I'm seeing what I can do with mix and match stock parts. From what I've read, if you sand the rod it'll take the hardened surface off of it and you have to re harden it, which I believe should be as easy and annealing the rod and dunking it in water. I think it would make for a stronger rod anyway. I plan on trying it and seeing what happens.

Interesting. Not sure what you are thinking or going for here.

And even if you are operating on anything close to reality.

First off: Factory rods are cast, meaning molten metal is poured in a mold. How one part or another can be stronger is beyond me. It's a homogenous mix of metal.

Now...forged rods are different as the outside surface has been pounded and those molecules will be more tightly packed...but again...pretty much the whole rod's molecular structure will be compacted.

Finally...we come to billet. The aluminum is compacted beforehand and the rod cut out of a solid piece....so...again...no extra surface strength.

So... You can smooth any rod, and the only loss of strength is directly proportional to the amount of material removed.

The only thing that is interesting is: can annealing help make stock rods stronger? Uncharted territory there...but..you would think somebody would have done it by now.

Btw: Given the above, you can see where forged is the only time this could possibly make a diffence.

 

[chancer]

I emailed cause I couldn't find a phone number. They responded "they are running production on these Headers" and it will ship on Monday.

I know they aren't producing these so what is the deal?????
PHONE NUMBER (cause any business taking $ and selling engines with stock rods claiming something else should at least provide a phone number).

This may be why there is no Phone number!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgmO32IdwuE

 

[Poboy kartman]

Thanks...that's great.^ Today seems to be a day of epiphanies for me.

I'm putting that on my phone answering machine.

 

[bob58o]

I've only left one threatening message (to a made up phone number??) then the next day my Hemi showed up.

Coincidence?

 

[chancer]

Yes.