Power max 16hp clutch?

[RoswellSolutions]

I bought a big 2 seater go kart and a Power Max 16 Hp., 1'' Shaft, Recoil Start Engine - XP16HP from www.maxtool.com. I need to know what's the best belt and clutch for it and where to get it from. I'm asuming that I'll be spending around $200 for it. For what it's worth the frame model is a Yerf-Dog Go-Kart #3202 (http://www.yerf-dog.com/products/3202.html)

Any advice is much appreciated!

 

[anderkart]

Does your Yearf Dog have any sprockets, pulleys or a jack shaft now?

I'd imagine theres some 1" bore, belt-drive clutchs rated to 16hp avalible, but If your not going to use a Torque converter setup I'd probably go with a chain drive instead of a belt.

One of the larger sized Torque converters would probably be the best option for a heavy off road kart with a larger engine like yours. Only problem is they're more expensive and also hard to locate now cause the manufacturer (Comet) closed down.

I run a 1" bore Noram Star clutch on my 20hp kart: http://www.out2win.com/catalog/noram.html#star

My buddy runs this same model clutch on his 13hp GX390 Honda motor that probably has the same length PTO shaft as yours. This clutch fit and works on his engine but his PTO shaft is 1/2" longer than necessary for this clutch. We just used a 1" ID. x 1/2" thick steel spacer between the clutch and the bolt/washer at the shafts end to take up the extra slack.

The Star clutch is avalible in your choice of 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 or 18 tooth drive gears. If you post your rear tire diamitor and a top speed you'd like to hit we could give you some gearing advice. (just remember gearing for higher top speeds = less acceleration and climbing ability)

 

[RoswellSolutions]

The XP16HP Features
4 Stroke OHV engine.
Full EPA and CARB Approval.
Start System: Recoil Start.
Ignition System: Transistorized Magneto.
Air Cleaner: Dual, Semi-dry, Oil Bath
Specifications:
Max Output: 16.0 HP / 3600 RPM.
Max Torque: 28.5 Nm / 21.0 ft/lb.
Displacement: 419ml, Bore: 90, Stroke: 66.
Shaft Size: 1" Dia, 2-3/4" Long, 1/4" Keyway, shaft end drilled & tapped w/ 3/8" 24 UNF.
Dimensions: 20.47" L, 18.5" W, 22.0" H.


The go kart has:
18" rear tires
The rear axle has a 10" chain sprocket that was connected to a belt pulley that connects to the motor.
I guess I could connect the molder straight to the rear sprocket on axle, right?


As for 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 or 18 tooth drive gears what would be the difference in them all?
I don't know what the normal speed is for a go kart. so I'm guessing about 20 miles an hour and good acceleration to do donuts on dirt we don't have much heels to climb maybe piles of dirt 2 or 3 feet high?


If there is any more information I could give you please let me know and I'll see what I can come up with.

 

[anderkart]

Sounds like you might have most of a Torque converters componets already on there. Can you post some closeup pics of your curent setup? You might just need the matching T/C driver and belt.

 

[RoswellSolutions]

Here are some pics hope they help
http://www.roswellsolutions.com/kart/

Thanks for all your help!

 

[anderkart]

Yeah, good news! That pulley is the driven portion of a Comet Torque Converter and you already have a jackshaft. Now you just need to locate the matching driver with a 1" bore and the corect belt. I think you've got a Comet 40-series driven there but I'm not positive.

Hopefully, one of our Torque Converter experts here will look at your pics and confirm what series your driven is. Then you can start searching and hopefully find a matching driver still for sale somewhere.

Have you asked the guy you bought the kart from if he still has the old driver?

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

I believe that is a 30 series driven, but im really not positive. It looks to be Asymmetric.

 

[RoswellSolutions]

The guy bought it from had a bunch of car pieces on it.
So I'm pretty much starting from scratch.

I have several questions maybe you can answer for me since I have been reading several posts on this website.

What is the difference/advantages/disadvantage for:
chain from the motor to the jackshaft, and jackshaft chain to the axle
and
belt from the motor to the jackshaft, and jackshaft chain to the axle

What one is better:
belt or chain from the motor to the jackshaft?

I'm thinking it might be best just to pull that pulley off the jackshaft and put a sprocket on it?

Doing that would also make it easier to change the ratio all the time when it?

How many teeth do I need on the motor and how many teeth do I need on jackshaft?

How big should the sprockets be on the motor and how big should the sprocket be on the jackshaft?

The bigger sprocket on the jackshaft = more acceleration or more top speed?

 

[theo]

I think that kart came with a 6hp tech. so the clutch set up most likely is a 20 series. You can get a driver for a 1" shaft, but If you are doing a lot of off roading with 2 in it I would go with at least a 40 series. I'm using a 16hp like yours and I got a 94C clutch to install on mine.

 

[anderkart]

Thats a lot of questions...

Most of the "belt to a jackshaft" setups you see on karts like yours are torque converters like your kart had.

If you want to run a centrifugal clutch, I'd suggest getting one for a chain and replacing your driven converter pulley to a sprocket like you said.

Heres some pretty good info/pics/videos explaining the diference between torque converters and centrifugal clutches: http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ters&hl=en&rlz=1T4DMUS_enUS221US222&sa=N&um=1

I feel a quality brand of chain will outlast a belt. Belts are also known to slip when wet.

Here's a Jackshaft gearing calculator you can play around with to figure diferent gearing combonations, to end up with your desired top speed: http://www.compgoparts.com/TechnicalResources/JackshaftRatioCalculator.asp

This calculator is a little tricky for a first time user, here's a few tips:

If your leaving your engines govenor all connected up, enter its max rated RPM. (probably 3600rpm)
Type 2000 in the "Enter RPM at clutch lock" window.
You'll also need to wrap a tape mesure around the center of a rear tire and enter in Its circumference.

You might as well start calculating with your curent axle sprocket/jack shaft gear tooth counts.

I gotta crash now but I'll check in tomorrow.

 

[anderkart]

Hey Roswell,
If your having trouble with that jackshaft calculator just post the number of teeth on your axle sprocket, plus how many teeth are on the jackshaft gear you have on there now. Then we can help you figure out what other gears you'd need to top out at 20mph with your 18" tires

 

[RoswellSolutions]

Okay let me bring you guys up to speed.

I was going to buy a torque converter Comet 40 series 1 inch bore driver, a Comet 40 series 5/8 bore driven and the belt to go with it all for about $480 with shipping.
But no one on the Internet seems to have any because Comet closed down.

So I went down town (we have nothing for go karts in this town) and found small centrifugal clutch (probably about 10hp Max with a chain I will order a bigger one soon) but I just wanted to see if I get moving.
But it takes a while to get to about 10mph (and no torque power) when you get to about 10 then it really starts taking off I'd probably say 30mph before I almost hit a fence (I was not expecting it to take off like that) it probably would win faster than that but I did not have the room to see.
Again I'm just guessing on my speed I'll know more come Friday when I have more time.

My question is now how can I get more acceleration speed the current layout is:
12 teeth clutch on the engine shaft going to a 12 teeth sprocket on the jackshaft which is a 5/8 bore. Using a #35 chain
then a I want to say a 12 teeth sprocket on the jackshaft (but I'm not real sure I forgot to count when I was by the kart) that goes to a 60 teeth sprocket on the axle. Using a #40/41 chain I'm guessing since it's bigger than the first one.


Would changing the sprocket to a bigger one on the jackshaft that goes to the engine clutch make a difference?

 

[anderkart]

Would changing the sprocket to a bigger one on the jackshaft that goes to the engine clutch make a difference?

Yes, a bigger one would give you better acceleration.

 

[RoswellSolutions]

Hey guys sorry it's been a while.

I bought the only clutch in town that would fit on my engine. It says it's only up to 8HP. But it has been working.
Why are clutches rated for X amount of HP and what kind of difference would I see if I had a 16HP clutch?

I have two layout for my gearing.

Layout number one:
The clutch on the engine with 12t. which goes to a 60t sprocket on the jackshaft and then a 10t on the jackshaft to a 60t sprocket on the axle.
This layout works great all but four there is absolutely no speed may be 1 to 2 MPH it really starts to get up and go though.

Layout number two:
The clutch on the engine with 12t. which goes to a 12t sprocket on the jackshaft and then a 10t on the jackshaft to a 60t sprocket on the axle.
This layout we get a lot of speed but the chain makes a loud noise and you can only ride it for about two minutes before master link in the chain pops.
Is it not possible to have a 12t go to a 12t sprocket? or what could be the cause of the loud noise and the chain popping?

Thanks a lot guys me and my kids really appreciate your help. The kids are loving the go kart even though it only goes 1 to 2 MPH.
But we know this will wear off soon, seeing as how the kids are 12, 14 and 16. I really need to get the speed up.

 

[motor_head]

a clutch that small will burn up before long on that big of engine

 

[anderkart]

Your 12t to a 12t (layout number two) should work fine. With your other gears I calculated that out to a 6:1 ratio and should achieve 32mph with your 18" tires @3600rpm.

Unless that 12t jackshaft sprocket is somehow defective, the wrong pitch or mounted out of alignment, there must be some issue with the chain and/or masterlink causing your problem here. Make sure you leave a 1/2" or so of chain slack, keep the chain lubed and instal your master link lock-clip so its closed end is pointing in the direction of the chains rotation.

We've had a few guys reporting those less expensive 1", 8hp-rated clutches held up fine with 13hp engines, but as far as I know your the first one to try one out with a 16hp. How long it holds up will probably depend on the karts gear ratio, and how much stop and go (and low speed) driving it has to endure. The clutch is stressed most when your taking off from a stop and while its slipping until it reaches the RPM where it locks up.

I'd expect clutches made for higher HP levels to simply be designed and built to be stronger in every way. They'd have more gripping ability between the shoes and drum to keep the clutch from slipping after its reached the RPM it should be locked in. If you guys take it easy on your 8hp clutch it might just hold up fine.

 

[RoswellSolutions]

I figured the 8hp would not last too long but I had to show some type of results for my wife. as I'm up to $1100. Who knew these things were so expensive!

anderkart:
I have ordered the Noram Mini Cup Clutch na1300181 = 18t #35 (another $200) off the website you gave me in your first reply. Unfortunately they said they don't have any in stock but it should probably be shipped to me by Wednesday meaning I probably won't get it until the following week.

Another thing I don't know how you come up with that speed. every time I use the calculator with that layout I get 10.23 for the speed. I guess I am just entering the numbers in the wrong place or something.

Anyhow thanks again!

 

[anderkart]

Nice clutch!

Hey I might of messed up somewhere, I calculated 56.5" for your rear tire circumference... Is that corect?

Something I noticed that might have confused your calculations is they've got that calculator configured with the clutch on the jackshaft... not on the engine like your kart is. The clutches actual location doesnt change anything but you'll just need to make sure your entering your gear counts in the corect locations.

So, the Teeth on Engine Driver window is where you'd need to be entering your clutches gear count.

And then the Teeth on Clutch Sprocket window is where you'd need to enter your 10 tooth jackshaft sprocket.

 

[anderkart]

I get 10.23 for the speed.

I figured out you were doing everything right there, but were entering your tire diamitor instead of its circumference. Use a tape mesure around the center of your tires tread. (air your tire up to max pressure rating first)

 

[newrider3]

I have a Comet 40 series set-up for sale in the classifieds section.