picking a mig

[shake this]

Now that I have an idea on a band saw, would like to get opinions on the welders I'm looking at.

I would like something that would be good at tackling projects around the garage. Weld the torque boxes and subframe connecters on the Mach. Building gates and the biggest project would be a utility trailer. Oh and of course, working on the carts. I won't be tackling any of the bigger jobs until I feel confident in my welding but the more research I do, the more confused I become. It seems that some people feel that a 110 welder is a wast of money and has no place in a garage/shop except to weld sheet metal. They are limited on the thickness they can weld, seems like 1/8 is about the limit for single passes and not using flux-cored wire. So here are the ones I'm looking at.

Millermatic 140
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/product.php?model=M00234PROS
auto set feature
protable
CONS
price for what it is
limited on what it can weld

Millermatic 211
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/product.php?model=M00245
PROS
auto set feature
110/220 compatible
will be able to weld anything I can come up with
CONS
price price price

Lincoln 140HD
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...Flow=3&catalogId=10053&langId=-1&ddkey=Search
PROS
good price for a Lincoln
comes with starter wire (sold and flux-core)
CONS
limited on the thickness just like the Miller 140

Hobarts Handler 140
http://www.tractorsupply.com/weldin...mig-welders/hobart-handler-140-welder-3812040
PROS
best price of the group
CONS
same problem as the other 140's

Hobart Handler 210MVP
http://www.tractorsupply.com/weldin...-welders/hobart-handler-210mvp-welder-1015810
PROS
same basic welder as the Miller 211 w/o the auto-set feature
CONS
same basic welder as the Miller 211 w/o the auto-set feature but the price isn't much better considering you can find a 211 for about the same price.

So as you can see, the 140's are much more economic but limit (according to research) to what they can weld. The larger 220 machines will handle pretty much anything I'll use them for but cost twice as much.

So should I start off with a smaller welder and trade up if I find myself progressing or should I just jump feet first and move my budget up to a larger welder?

The price points for all the welders are about the same. I can find all brands for less by shopping around but they are all about the same price difference from each other.

 

[redsox985]

I have used a MM 140 a lot and really like them. They can do 3/16" in one pass with the wire turned down a bit and the power cranked up all the way. They feed nicely and hold their own. It will weld any part of a kart that you are building. If you want to weld anything larger, you're going to need to fork out the cash for one of the larger ones. 110v is preferable IMO for smaller stuff like karts because you can run it from anywhere with an outlet. I don't think that auto-set is worth the extra cost if you can get one without because I feel that the recommended settings usually pump out a bit too much filler wire and cause it to pile up and not get as much penetration as I'd like. I like having that level of control and the machines come with tables that suggest settings anyways.

 

[r97]

the millers are very nice, but i'm not sure they are worth the extra cash, i would go with one of the Hobart or Lincoln welders. if you have the money and your willing to spend it, i would get the larger welder, i'm kinda annoyed with my welders 1/8" capacity.... but if you do get the 230V machine keep in mind the added cost of installing a new 230v outlet if you don't have one nearby.

one thing you may want to consider is this,

http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/mig-flux-welders/230-volt-160-amp-mig-and-flux-welder-93793.html

throw in a 20 percent coupon and its near half the cost of the Hobart 140! the only downsides would be:

- it says "not suitable for aluminum" trying to find out exactly why, but that might not be an issue for you.

-being an HF welder it probably wont have much resale value compared to a name brand, you may also be worried about quality, but the ratings and reviews all seem to be on the plus side.

 

[devino246]

If your gonna spend a bunch of money, you might as well spend more for a name brand. If you ever resell it you'll be happy you did.

 

[r97]

how about a used name brand?

 

[devino246]

how about a used name brand?

Dont know why I didnt think of that. It would be the best option, might even come with a tank.

 

[redsox985]

Check your CL. This isn't name brand, I don't think, but it's a good deal. Especially for the amps it kicks out.

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/for/2348819360.html

 

[gokart14]

lincoln

 

[r97]

that one redsox posted looks like a good deal, but you would want to do your research first, it would suck to buy it, then have it break and not be able to get new parts.

____________________________________________

if you do buy a new, name brand welder, i would highly suggest this one, Hobart is a good brand, its a powerful welder, and it comes with a spool gun, plus free shipping, for $950!!!!! even if you don't plan to weld aluminum i would get it, worst thing that could happen is that you make 200 buck selling the spool gun!

awesome deal on a welder i wish i had <---- click on the smiley!

looking at it, i wish i had it!

 

[shake this]

Thanks for all the opinions. After some more research and a bunch of reading, I’ve decided to go with the miller 211. Not only will it handling the small projects but it will give me all the room I will need to grow and weld thicker metal. Not only that but if I decide welding it’s for me, it looks like the market for good used welders is very strong right now so I shouldn’t have a problem selling it. Also, the auto set is only a feature and can be disabled thus giving you infinite heat and speed (within set limits)

I just think for everything I’d like to be able to weld, this is going to be the best welder for me.

I've been watching CL and Ebay but anything used is only a few hundred off of the regular price if that. I've still got a few months before I have enough so I'll keep watching and jump if I find a good deal but I'm not holding my breath.

R97, I din't see the rest of your post under the line break. Your right, that is one hell of a price. I might reconsider if they still have it when I'm ready to buy.

 

[r97]

Hey,

My birthday is coming up soon so i too have been looking to upgrade my welder, so i'm kinda in the same boat. i often find myself needing the no slag weld, or needing to weld aluminum, or metals thicker than 1/8". so i would like to upgrade before i get to work on my next project so i can do it right!

after looking around, and talking to my uncle (has been welding many many years), i'm pretty sure i'm going to settle for the Hobart handler 187.

- can mig weld 5/16" steel (the Lincoln 180 welder says it can fcaw weld 1/2"!)
- can mig weld aluminum, not too easy to fit a spool gun, but it seems you can go without one no problem,link
- its a decent price, and i hope i can scrape together enough $ between mowing lawns and my b-day
- its a reputable brand, i found that Hobart and Miller are made by the same company and are nearly identical inside.


anyway, just thought i would mention it in-case you were interested,

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200328799_200328799

Happy welding!


EDIT: did i mention the 5 year factory warranty?!

 

[redsox985]

A wonder if a 180 can really FCAW weld 1/2". The school's MM 252 cranked up to it's max can't really weld (GMAW) 1/2" in one pass. It needs to be flipped and rewelded on the other side to ensure COMPLETE penetration as it only goes about 3/4 of the way though. We turned down the wire speed to get more heat and less filler but it still wouldn't go.

That's cool to know that Miller and Hobart are made by the same people as Hobarts are cheaper. I wonder if any internal parts say Miller? I'm going to be very jealous of you if you get a MIG set up running soon!

 

[r97]

I bet the single pass half inch claim is pretty exaggerated.

If I get the mig we will be even, do not forget the awesome shop you get to use at school!!!! lOL

 

[redsox985]

But I can't just go and mess around whenever I want. For example, what did I do today with my Saturday? Nothing. I'm trying to get my hand on an old LB so I can work on getting it running, but was told "You'll be discouraged when you see it. These things are like from the 60's." If they're that old, I don't know, that was my friend's opinion of his dad's company's old mowers. Then his dad tried explaining to me that the shaft is the wrong size and that HF sells new horizontal motors for $100. I really wanted to say "Yes, I know it's old and doesn't run. I also know that it most likely has a 63/64" tapered PTO. Also the gas tank needs to be moved and the carb reoriented. Oh, and it takes extra effort to mount." But I couldn't because he is still willing to give me a motor. And I need it soon so I can take it into that "awesome shop" and turn the PTO to 3/4" and mill a keyway. Sorry for drifting way off topic, I just felt like venting a bit. Bad day.

 

[r97]

that stinks!

maybe you could just tell him your looking for a good challenge, and you could tell him how your going to fix it?

i guess you cant go to the shop when there isn't school so that kinda stinks, but i still do wish i had something to look forward to at school other then the end of the day, LOL.

if you want to get a welder, my advice is to do a few things. do any work around the house whenever possible, try to make little bits of money. do stuff in the neighborhood, walk dogs, mow lawns, shovel snow, rake leaves, fix lawn mowers, spread mulch, plant trees and bushes, etc, ask your grandparents if they want something done. your probably old enough to get a summer job this year too, maybe work at an engine repair shop, gas station, golf course, hardware store (employ discount!), etc. when Christmas or your b-day comes around, ask for only one present, really show your parents thats what you want, tell them all the things you can and WILL do with it, if they know you have an interest in something like that they may be more inclined to get you something like a welder, also offer to help pay for it. whatever you want, find the best deal on it for them, northern tool argon cylinder is 200 dollars, go find one for 99 dollars, etc.
you could also do what i have done, get a name brand welder (used or new), then sell it for a good price when you want to upgrade, also use the smaller welder to make money. then once you upgrade to a bigger welder, make more money with that one, and maybe pay back your parents some money they may have loaned you. once you can do aluminum you can make bike parts, and let me tell you those BMX bike people ALWAYS break stuff, LOL. in-fact, maybe you could already do all this stuff using the shop at school, you could probably fab up some aluminum handle bars in one class, plus do they charge you for the metal, or consumables? if not your making whatever amount you sell it for!

i would say anything between a "Lincoln handy MIG (or Lincoln handy core)" and a "Hobart handler 140" would do just about anything on a kart (beware, several parts of the kart are 1/4" steel!). once you want to upgrade, something similar to the Hobart Handler 187 would be more then enough, you can read the stuff i wrote about it above, or look at the 126 reviews all averaging 4.9 out of 5 stars!!!!. get a drill, bits, angle grinder, few clamps, gloves, mask, and away you go!

and lastly, you can do things much cheaper than what i do, i'm just kinda a perfectionist, so i end up spending more of my money on stuff, /.

Hope that helps,

 

[redsox985]

I really want to do that this summer as I've found a job. I'll be umpiring 9-12 year old baseball games making between $25-30 cash a game for 2 hours. I can easily make $75 on a Saturday and still have my Saturday night free. The main issue is that I have no place for this stuff. I would have to do some serious garage cleanup and then work to maintain it. Oh, and convince mom to let me reorganize all of this crap and be playing in the garage with tools that are easily able to ignite the house.

 

[r97]

thats good, sounds like it pays well.

my advice for convincing mom:

- tell her you will clean up garage for free if you can get a welder.
- get as much safety stuff as possible.
- maybe get some welding blankets to cover stuff.
- maybe even have your shop teacher help you and talk to your mom.
- also point out some things you could fix/make for her around the house (pot rack?).
- also point out you have however many years of experience you have from shop class.

once you get a welder, they probably wont care about you using an angle grinder or most other tools.

 

[r97]

shake this,

as you know i'm also looking for a mig. i spent a while thinking about the aluminum capabilities of the Hobart Handler 187. after a lot of thinking and me getting no where, i emailed Hobart, there response was; the hobart handler 187 does not have an available teflon liner or U shaped drive rolls. the Hobart handler 187 is desinged to work with aluminum wire, but if you are interested in doing a decent amount of aluminum welding you should get a spool gun.

translation:

the hobart handler 187 isn't that great with aluminum, if you want to weld aluminum, get the hobart handler 210 with spool gun from northern tool.

also, i found out to use spool gun on the HH187 it would cost just as much as getting the 210 w/ spool gun for $950.

just thought i would let you know my findings.

________________________________________

as for me, i would be very (extremely) happy with the 187, but i can think of many times where i may weld aluminum, and i'm not sure the big price of the 187 is worth it wothout the capability of aluminum.

so i'm either going to:
-not get a welder at all
-use the money i saved up for the dune buggy, what i get from selling th old welder, maybea loan from mom and dad, and what ever i get for my b-day to possibly get the Hobart Handler 210 which will easily fulfill all my needs for a very very very long time (possibly forever). of course i probably wont be able to get gas bottles for a while (if i even can get the welder), but thats ok, i't will be worth the wait for such an incredible machine!

why get such a big welder? i have a 110v welder, so if i upgrade, i want to go 220v (if i didn't get 220v, i'm better off sticking with my current setup). the smallest 220v is the 187, but that wont work with aluminum well. one of the main reasons i want to upgrade is so i can weld aluminum, so without that ability, its kinda not worth the big sum of cash (don't get me wrong, i would love that welder, but if i'm spending that much, i should do it right(as always)). so that puts me at the HH210.... much more than i want to (maybe more than i can) spend, but i may never have to shop for a mig welder again.

although i will have spent my dune buggy money on the welder, i plan to use the welder to make money back.


anyway, i'm still debating if its worth it, and if there is even the slightest chance i can pull together that much money. LOL, if i do get it i will weld small parts for people on here for free if they pay shipping
_______________________________________________________________

also, on a side note. anyone who is looking at the harbor freight 220v, 140a mig welder. i suggest you don't buy it. after installing a 220v outlet, and getting the extended warranty, you could pretty much get a 110v, hobart handler 140 with a 5 yr warrenty!!!!!



p.s. Harbor frieght 6.5 hp engine is now only $75!!!!!!!!

 

[TorqueRanger]

Use straight miller
I have Lincoln and use it alot but it does compare to a miller.. The miller is just plan built better and better though out..I am a 4th generation welder.. Oh and Lincoln has step upon how they build stuff, because Lincoln quality was falling behind to miller not to long ago.. That's why I love millers stuff..
You can gets parts for miller and Lincoln almost any where ,where most off brands it's more of a pain in the butt to get fixed..

 

[Hendu3270]

I voted for the HH140. I've not had mine too long but I've been very pleased with it. I went through a similar "welder" decision recently as well. I had already made the decision not to run 220 into the garage so I was only looking at 110 machines. I knew it would be a stretch to spring for the Miller so my choice was further narrowed down to a Lincoln 140 and a Hobart 140. Both of which would do anything I would need to do. I had heard good things about both and figured they were both capable welders. For me it came down to two things.

1. The Hobart was a little more affordable than the Lincoln. Which was important since work has been pretty slow lately.

2. The small Lincoln machines, (from what I've been told), are manufactured in Mexico while the Hobart is made in the USA, and also from what I understand, was bought out by Miller.

One other thing I will say is this. If you have 220 readily available in your garage/shop and you are able to "swing it" financially, you will most likely be happier with either the MM211 or the Hobart 210 in the long run. There's no denying they will are more powerful welders with higher duty cycles. Might be easier to first decide on 110 volt models or 220 volt models. Just my two cents. Good luck with whichever welder you choose.