Not sure how to proceed

[Greddy]

Hello all,
I bought a rolling frame off FB and am not sure the best way to setup the new motor and torque converter. Any advice as far as how to mount the engine, route the chain(s) etc. would be greatly appreciated. I’m handy, but I’m not sure if I need to modify the current setup or should I be able to mount the motor and TC without many changes.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Hello all,
I bought a rolling frame off FB and am not sure the best way to setup the new motor and torque converter. Any advice as far as how to mount the engine, route the chain(s) etc. would be greatly appreciated. I’m handy, but I’m not sure if I need to modify the current setup or should I be able to mount the motor and TC without many changes.

Looks like a strong set up, with those 4 bearing supports.

Measure the diameter of the jackshaft. This will let you know what i.d. of the driven will need to be.

Do you already have an engine??

You wanna run a big block, with 1" crankshaft???? Or a small block with a 3/4" crankshaft???

A big block needs a 40 series tav, a small blocks needs a 30 series. I have use a 30 series with the driver made for a big block (stock predator 301), it worked really good on a dingo with 18" tires, 5.4:1 gear, 7" driven. Only had it a few hrs, then sold.
Nice start for a project

 

[Greddy]

My plan is to purchase a 212 with 3/4” shaft paired with the 30. I’m confused as to how the motor and converter will line up with what’s currently on here. Does that current shaft with sprocket need to be part of the process or should I remove it and run straight from the jack shaft to the large sprocket?

 

[BrownStainRacing]

My plan is to purchase a 212 with 3/4” shaft paired with the 30. I’m confused as to how the motor and converter will line up with what’s currently on here. Does that current shaft with sprocket need to be part of the process or should I remove it and run straight from the jack shaft to the large sprocket?

Yes, . Take that sprocket off, save it. It looks to have been a jackshaft set up, clutch with 2 chains. 1 chain from clutch to jackshaft, then another from jackshaft to axle sprocket. You are right about going with a tav, (t/c).

Count the teeth on axle sprocket and jackshaft sprocket. Small blocks need help with gearing. Looks like axle has a 60t or more, sweet.

 

[Denny]

You’re going to need to mount the engine first. That will start to lead you in a direction that you may need to go.

 

[BaconBitRacing]

Welcome! I agree with Brownstain, that is a very heavy duty kart that will grow with power needs and wants. It’s solidly built and gonna take off road like a champ.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

My plan is to purchase a 212 with 3/4” shaft paired with the 30. I’m confused as to how the motor and converter will line up with what’s currently on here. Does that current shaft with sprocket need to be part of the process or should I remove it and run straight from the jack shaft to the large sprocket?

I will get you pics of my grandson buggy, it's not the exact same, but you will understand a lil better.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Here you go. It's ez. You already ahead of most projects. I'm liking it.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

My plan is to purchase a 212 with 3/4” shaft paired with the 30. I’m confused as to how the motor and converter will line up with what’s currently on here. Does that current shaft with sprocket need to be part of the process or should I remove it and run straight from the jack shaft to the large sprocket?

Which 212 you thinking about???
I've taking a bunch of them right outta the box, put em on the work bench, tore em down, measured for compression ratio, piston to cylinder cleanrance, ring end gaps, crank and cam end play, bolt torq specs. They are alot of differences in the 212cc engines.

I've torn these down and speced. If you need any info on any 1, jus lmk.

Pred 212 non hemi
Pred 212 hemi
Pred 224 non hemi
Ducar 212 hemi
Tillotson 212e hemi

Theres, also a a tillotson 212r non hemi, I had a used 1, but didn't tear it down. It's in a league of it's own, outta the box.

I've lost count on all the 196c clones I've torn down, they are a difference in those too.

 

[Denny]

Wedges make more power with gasoline. Hemis make more power with exotic fuels.

 

[panchothedog]

Hey Greddy. You have a really rugged looking back end on that kart. NICE. Have never seen one like that before. Like you have already been advised by
BrownStain, a plate system torque converter with just one chain running from jack shaft to axle sprocket is the best way to go. Looking at the pictures of your kart you may have some location problems. Your axle sprocket is centered under the engine plate. You can probably relocate it, as it doesn't look like the hub the sprocket is mounted on is welded to the axle. But then it looks like your
brake set up may be right where you need the axle sprocket to sit. Worse case,
run from the torque converter Jack shaft to your stock set up. That is a pretty small lightweight yard kart. A 212cc engine with a 30 series torque converter will give you good performance. If you build the engine and play with the clutch, it can give you GREAT performance. I have a couple of big 2 seat off road karts with heavely modified predator 212 engines and they haul the mail pretty darn good.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Hey Greddy. You have a really rugged looking back end on that kart. NICE. Have never seen one like that before. Like you have already been advised by
BrownStain, a plate system torque converter with just one chain running from jack shaft to axle sprocket is the best way to go. Looking at the pictures of your kart you may have some location problems. Your axle sprocket is centered under the engine plate. You can probably relocate it, as it doesn't look like the hub the sprocket is mounted on is welded to the axle. But then it looks like your
brake set up may be right where you need the axle sprocket to sit. Worse case,
run from the torque converter Jack shaft to your stock set up. That is a pretty small lightweight yard kart. A 212cc engine with a 30 series torque converter will give you good performance. If you build the engine and play with the clutch, it can give you GREAT performance. I have a couple of big 2 seat off road karts with heavely modified predator 212 engines and they haul the mail pretty darn good.

@panchothedog
You must be seeing something I don't see.
I was thinking, jus add a 7" driven to the jackshaft, mount the engine and measure shafts center to center for belt size.

 

[panchothedog]

BrownStain, No reason at all why that won't work. I guess I misunderstood your advice to him. I was thinking that you were telling him to install a plate system and delete his existing drive system, which would have required moving things around. Robust kart. Should hold up to anything.

 

[LTF_GK]

Hello all,
I bought a rolling frame off FB and am not sure the best way to setup the new motor and torque converter. Any advice as far as how to mount the engine, route the chain(s) etc. would be greatly appreciated. I’m handy, but I’m not sure if I need to modify the current setup or should I be able to mount the motor and TC without many changes.

You have a pretty robust frame and rear end. You should follow what brown stain is saying. If the rear end is a little too much for you, you can remove it and go with a standard live axle no jack shaft setup and flip the axle (left to right) so the sprocket is on the other side.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

@panchothedog @LTF_GK ,
I totally agree, there's so many different ways he can go with what he has now. I dont see a wrong way.

We really don't see this very often, or not me any ways. I usually end up with some body elses junk, that needs torn apart and put back together the right way.

There's a Ton of potential here!!!!

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Here's another option, and this is the way I would go.
Who wouldn't want a gokart that has forward/neutral/reverse and a 3rd GEAR REDUCTION?????

This would be soooo simple. Jus mount it behind the engine, connect chain to existing jackshaft, add driven pulley to gear box. Presto done, go fine the biggest steepest hill around.

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[Greddy]

@panchothedog @LTF_GK ,
I totally agree, there's so many different ways he can go with what he has now. I dont see a wrong way.

We really don't see this very often, or not me any ways. I usually end up with some body elses junk, that needs torn apart and put back together the right way.

There's a Ton of potential here!!!!

I agree. My father-in-law and I were chatting (subtle arguing) about this yesterday for about an hour. There are many ways to go about getting this kart rolling and in my opinion, I like getting rid of the stock setup and doing to torque converter jackshaft right to the axle sprocket (after moving it from the current location). The best part (as most have pointed out) is that I have options if I don't like how it performs. Thanks for all the advice and help!

 

[BaconBitRacing]

I agree. My father-in-law and I were chatting (subtle arguing) about this yesterday for about an hour. There are many ways to go about getting this kart rolling and in my opinion, I like getting rid of the stock setup and doing to torque converter jackshaft right to the axle sprocket (after moving it from the current location). The best part (as most have pointed out) is that I have options if I don't like how it performs. Thanks for all the advice and help!

Personally I’d keep the setup on it because of the low gear ratio for massive low end. But if you’re going to simplify and want top speed that’s an option. Depending on your tire size and rear sprocket size, you may have to keep this setup. But honestly, that kart is really incredible and can be built almost any way you want, and I’m a bit jealous!

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I with @I agree. My father-in-law and I were chatting (subtle arguing) about this yesterday for about an hour. There are many ways to go about getting this kart rolling and in my opinion, I like getting rid of the stock setup and doing to torque converter jackshaft right to the axle sprocket (after moving it from the current location). The best part (as most have pointed out) is that I have options if I don't like how it performs. Thanks for all the advice and help!

I'm with @BaconBitRacing here. Leave it the way it is, and put the engine on.

With driven pulley mounted to jackshaft, this would give you 2 gear reductions. You will be limited in changing gear ratios, by changing the small sprocket teeth count, under the engine plate on jackshaft, BUT you still have more choices then most, without changing axle sprocket, you have more clearance then most builds that are limited with space and can only change to certain size jackshaft sprockets.

Now with the f/n/r gear box you CAN have up to 4 gear reductions, as the gear box itself is 1.3:1 forward, and 2.6:1 reverse. So if you run a 10t off the gear box to a 10t on the jackshaft, this is only a 1:1 ratio and does not count as a gear reduction, leaving you with 3 gear reductions, and a bunch of different options, ratios to change, with out changing axle sprocket.

BUT, changing the 10t to a 11t on jackshaft, will now give you a 1.1:1, which adds another gear reduction for a total of 4, and now you have unlimited amount of gear ratio choices, which will allow you to choose up to the biggest tires that you can squeeze on that cart, and very easily change a couple small jackshaft sprockets without pulling the axle and changing the axel sprocket, like 99% of us have to do,

Yes, I'm jealous too, so wipe that smile off your face, .

You can easily get a 30:1 gear ratio, on the low side with a 7" driven.
That's enough gear to run down to the Phat Phactory bar and grill, pick up a couple chub-a-licious, starry eyed gals, and giv em both a ride, at the same time.

I can give examples of gear ratio, low and high side, final drive. Jus give me teeth count on jackshaft to axle sprockets.

 

[Greddy]

Alright, I've noticed many sources online saying to cut the oil sensor wire and discard. The explanation makes sense to me but there's no coming back once those wires are snipped...

Is this really necessary? Does the oil slosh around enough to cause issues with killing the motor?