Next...

[OzFab]

I feel for you Tony...

that thing is cursed.. you'd need a voodoo high priest.

I know it'll be a financial loss, but IIWM.. I'd kill it with fire

'sid

Selling it in before the engine self destructed would've been a financial loss so...

Nanny noo noo nanny noo nooo.....Good evening ladies and gentlemen. ....meet Fabroman....an otherwise capable small engine mechanic and competent in all things mechanical....who has just discovered that when cutting grass......things are not always what they seem..in "The Twilight Zone".........

You, seriously, are nuts Doug

 

[machinist@large]

You, seriously, are nuts Doug

So I'm not the only one to have noticed it after all?!?!?

 

[OzFab]

No, I've been saying it for months

 

[OzFab]

What's wrong with this picture?

FYI: Piston is at TDC

 

[OzFab]

Ok, let me explain:

After the engine blew, I managed to find a replacement engine on fleabay for $10, attached to a mower but, it was a distance away (don't you love it when it costs $20 in fuel to pick up something worth $10 :toetap05. I suppose the other stop I had to make made up for it though; 3 working electric scooters with chargers for $45 (the seller said he recently saw just a charger go for that much)...

It was late by the time I returned home so, Monday morning I headed out to inspect the goods. A check up on the mower showed it had great compression & spark so, I put some fuel in the tank & tried to start it; it would fire & shoot a puff of smoke out the muffler but, something was off; have you guessed yet?

I removed the starter cowl & the spark plug, aligned the piston to TDC & the magnets on the flywheel were away from the coil by about 85°...

After buying a new socket to fit the nut, I proceeded to remove the starter cup, only to find rust between the shaft & the flywheel so, it's currently soaking in penetrating oil, I'll attempt to remove it tomorrow...

So far, the only other problem I've discovered is the other end of the shaft is splined whereas, the old shaft is straight with a keyway so, here's my dilemma; do I:

1. Pull both engines apart & hope the old shaft fits the new block & conrod or

2. Machine the blade holder down & attach it to the pulley assembly after I remove the new sleeve I made for the first replacement engine (which could be a bit tricky)?

 

[OzFab]

Wow, thanks for the help guys...

 

[Poboy kartman]

I would pull them both apart.....if they are the same make and hp.....chances are very good that the cranks are a direct swap.....

Despite a recent disagreement with another member over tappets... (and he is wrong)....small engine manufacturers try very hard to limit variations in parts....especially block machining. ...or core components. ....

That's the whole point of mass production that Henry Ford invisioned..interchangable parts....But GM took that to a whole new level with the small-block Chevy engine. .....

So......it would defy logic....that a mass reproduced small engine would have any more than the absolute minimum machining set-up or the absolute minimum in variance in parts.....Right Pat?

 

[itsid]

Wow, thanks for the help guys...

Sorry Tony.. I respect your persistance, and I see what you're trying to do of course;
but as far as I'm concerned you'll only drop more money into that pit.

But if you insist:
Try to fit the old conrod to the new engine..
if it does, go for it.

if it doesn't, refit the splined one, fix the flywheel key, sell the pushmower, find another donor..
this time, check the shaft first
(most likely it's just an exactly matching engine code you're looking for)

When it does, fire it up exactly ONCE befor the new buyer arrives.. I wouldn't take any chances.
...

well I wouldn't bother anymore .. I'd sell it's parts and call it a lesson (just me perhaps )

'sid

 

[machinist@large]

Ok, let me explain:

After the engine blew....

.......So far, the only other problem I've discovered is the other end of the shaft is splined whereas, the old shaft is straight with a keyway so, here's my dilemma; do I:

1. Pull both engines apart & hope the old shaft fits the new block & conrod or

2. Machine the blade holder down & attach it to the pulley assembly after I remove the new sleeve I made for the first replacement engine (which could be a bit tricky)?

Wow, thanks for the help guys...

I apologize Tony; this week is going down the drain fast at work. Not "I'm about to loose my job" going down the drain, more we just had the current flag ship 5 axis CNC mill go down, which means the older 5 axis machines are now swamped, which means anything that the two 3 axis CNC's that I'm primary on can mill the blade surfaces on with polishing blending the hubs is now my (and a couple of other guys) problem.....

I would pull them both apart.....if they are the same make and hp.....chances are very good that the cranks are a direct swap.....

Despite a recent disagreement with another member over tappets... (and he is wrong)....small engine manufacturers try very hard to limit variations in parts....especially block machining. ...or core components. ....

That's the whole point of mass production that Henry Ford invisioned..interchangable parts....But GM took that to a whole new level with the small-block Chevy engine. .....

So......it would defy logic....that a mass reproduced small engine would have any more than the absolute minimum machining set-up or the absolute minimum in variance in parts.....Right Pat?

In theory, Doug is 100% correct. I just refuse to claim it's so for the simple fact that I've never had to tear one of these small ones down because of internal failure. I guess I was raised on keeping clean oil where it was needed, and ignitions & carbs as required...

Sorry Tony.. I respect your persistance, and I see what you're trying to do of course;
but as far as I'm concerned you'll only drop more money into that pit.

But if you insist:
Try to fit the old conrod to the new engine..
if it does, go for it.

if it doesn't, refit the splined one, fix the flywheel key, sell the pushmower, find another donor..
this time, check the shaft first
(most likely it's just an exactly matching engine code you're looking for)

When it does, fire it up exactly ONCE befor the new buyer arrives.. I wouldn't take any chances.
...

well I wouldn't bother anymore .. I'd sell it's parts and call it a lesson (just me perhaps )

'sid

Alex makes some really valid points, as does Doug. I guess I'm stuck in the middle because I don't have the detailed information to give a final answer...

 

[landuse]

Yeah. Don't look at me. I just don't know too much about engines. I would just do as Alex says and go for it and see if it works

 

[OzFab]

I would pull them both apart.....if they are the same make and hp.....chances are very good that the cranks are a direct swap.....

Despite a recent disagreement with another member over tappets... (and he is wrong)....small engine manufacturers try very hard to limit variations in parts....especially block machining. ...or core components. ....

That's the whole point of mass production that Henry Ford invisioned..interchangable parts....But GM took that to a whole new level with the small-block Chevy engine. .....

So......it would defy logic....that a mass reproduced small engine would have any more than the absolute minimum machining set-up or the absolute minimum in variance in parts.....Right Pat?

Sorry Doug but, to an extent, Russ is correct but, anyhoo...

I'm thinking the same thing &, based on recent events (I can't get the engine running) I'm probably looking at tearing the engine down anyway so, I may as well give it a go...

Sorry Tony.. I respect your persistance, and I see what you're trying to do of course;
but as far as I'm concerned you'll only drop more money into that pit.

Unfortunately (for me), this is a puzzle & I can't stop until I solve it, that's just the way I am; call it persistent, wasting my time or even stupid but, I can't change the way I am...

But if you insist:
Try to fit the old conrod to the new engine..
if it does, go for it.

...Providing the rod fits the new piston, correct?

Alex makes some really valid points, as does Doug. I guess I'm stuck in the middle because I don't have the detailed information to give a final answer...

You're not along there Pat, right now, neither do I

Yeah. Don't look at me. I just don't know too much about engines. I would just do as Alex says and go for it and see if it works

Thanks Paul...

 

[landuse]

Thanks Paul...

LOL. I have given you all the advice I can. Generally it goes something like this:

"Do what he says /\"

 

[itsid]

Unfortunately (for me), this is a puzzle & I can't stop until I solve it, that's just the way I am; call it persistent, wasting my time or even stupid but, I can't change the way I am...



...Providing the rod fits the new piston, correct?

Okay, I fully understand that (I sometimes do the same..)
I once bought a non working 1978 plotter to salvage the stepper motors, opened it up and saw the caps blew as well as some diodes.. so I ordered up diodes and caps, soldered them in and it worked..
fabbed a cable to attach it to a printer port and wrote a small piece of software to test plot a file...
just because I HAD to.
Took me a month to trace down parts and find schematics etc.pp.
I then bought different steppers because the plotter wasn't broken anymore.
I now have a working plotter sitting around doing nothing just because I wanted to solve a puzzle.

The thing is.. it's all pointless!

What's your intention and what are you doing now?
Are you still solving a puzzle or are you already shaving a yak?

So sit back for a minute and make a list of things you did already (maybe add what you spend already), and a list of things you need to do to make it work,
then see if it's reasonable or not.

Still want to fix that?

Well then; yes, providing it fits the new piston.
But if it doesn't, then what about the old piston?
can you fit it to the new cylinder?
can you smooth it out enough to fit good piston rings and use that?
is it possible to find just a matching piston without another 'project' mower in your garage?

if it's no no and no...
get the new crankshaft back in, fix the pushmower, sell it, find a new one.


'sid

 

[OzFab]

I really need to think about this one, after all, I'm only trying to fix it to sell it...

 

[itsid]

Let me draw you a picture...
.. you're James -"Connery is still the best"- Bond in an ascending helicopter ride...
if you hold on to the skid for too long you might break your neck in the end

I don't say I'm correct, nor that you already do,
but after all the efforts you made already I think it's about time to let it go.
Before you find yourself spending another hundred bucks you'll never see again for something you didn't want to keep in the first place.

It's different if it's YOUR mower, something you want to hang on to,
something you need or that has a sentimental value...
but drowning money in a flipper? I don't know. *shrugs*

'sid

 

[OzFab]

IT LIVES!

After considering the best course of action, I decided it would probably be easier to clean the bore of the old engine than to attempt to switch the cranks so, a little bit of fancy filing, scraping with a bearing scraper & a quick hone later...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV_brXXYBX8&feature=youtu.be

 

[itsid]

NICE!

I'll keep my fingers crossed that it'll stay running until the buyer hands over the money

Good luck!

'sid

 

[OzFab]

Update:

Bad news: The engine siezed again...

Good news: A buyer was on his way when it siezed (no, that's good news because it sold )

When the buyer arrived I explained the situation as well as saying I had a suitable replacement engine. Turns out, his 15yo son wants to turn it into a go kart (Yes, I warned them both of the dangers; also, this may not be the last we see of this nightmare...)

He explained that he didn't have a trailer so, I offered to deliver it for them (about 20 mins away)

The next day (Sunday) a fella rang me asking about the gearbox; his greenfields riding mower has the same box but, his is broken...

So, after a bit of fancy talking, I convinced the mower buyer to switch from the replacement vert shaft engine to the green clone with the wet clutch redux box that I bought some time ago & had been sitting on a shelf ever since. He was fine with thatonce I explained everything so, I then rang the other fella & told him the good news; he'll be here to pick up the box tomorrow...

So, I'm still down a few dollars but, the saga is all but over, IT'S GONE!

 

[landuse]

Bad news: The engine siezed again...

Good news: A buyer was on his way when it siezed (no, that's good news because it sold )

When the buyer arrived I explained the situation as well as saying I had a suitable replacement engine. Turns out, his 15yo son wants to turn it into a go kart (Yes, I warned them both of the dangers; also, this may not be the last we see of this nightmare...)

He explained that he didn't have a trailer so, I offered to deliver it for them (about 20 mins away)

The next day (Sunday) a fella rang me asking about the gearbox; his greenfields riding mower has the same box but, his is broken...

So, after a bit of fancy talking, I convinced the mower buyer to switch from the replacement vert shaft engine to the green clone with the wet clutch redux box that I bought some time ago & had been sitting on a shelf ever since. He was fine with thatonce I explained everything so, I then rang the other fella & told him the good news; he'll be here to pick up the box tomorrow...

So, I'm still down a few dollars but, the saga is all but over, IT'S GONE!

That is good news. At least it seized when he was gone

 

[machinist@large]

Tony, I really hope this works out for you; it's crap like that that has me only working for myself when I'm off the clock.....