Sweet engine. Scary frame. Not trying to bash your purchase. I love a good deal but that thing looks like it's gonna fall apart. I Would start over if you want something you can SAFELY have fun in. That is an *** load of engine for a rusty poorly designed frame. Sweet score on the motor. I am sure you can find a great frame and just re-use all the existing parts.
Newbie just bought a Kart with potential
- Thread starter perceptionist
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i have to agree, the frame looks like it was built with heavy tubing but theres absolutely no triangulation. it's prolly a good thing the suspension design is bad since it prevented the previous owner from going too wild with the thing, and i'm pretty sure the frame would have just bent over in a big bump. notice how the shape lends itself perfectly to just being skewed over to any side and breaking the welds to the floor.
Rear shock mounts are what really got me to look at the entire thing closely. Again, i am not bashing your score. I would love to have that power plant at that price. Take a good long look at the frame, that is the exact opposite of what you want to have that kinda power in. Square tubing is great if you want to build the lower frame out of it. But round tubing is way cleaner looking. I'll be that thing weight 600lbs +
perceptionist
New member
It is VERY heavy, I would like to weigh it and find out exactly how heavy. On my test run last night, it was clear that the weight was not an issue with regard to the motor pushing it. Straight forward driving was cool, turning made it no fun at all. I just bought a MIG welder and have been practicing. I would like to eventually build a frame or at least make some major adjustments to this one so it's drivable until I get something more ideal.
Good man! What kind of mig? Flux core? If so, be careful welding thin metal (.095 and smaller) It loves to burn right through that stuff. If gas mix then you are set. You should be able to make a sweet suspension buggy weighing in around 350-400lbs dry that will be super safe with that power. The rolling chassis i build weigh around 225-250lbs and they are plenty strong for that power. All round tubing though. Good luck man. Nothing more satisfying than burning metal and putting power behind it.
Aryukei
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Of course it is. Your using a live axle. They're for offroad terrain. You just said your on the road. (concrete) You'll always be turning bad. A live axle spins both wheels at the same speed which makes it hard to turn. Unlike a differential, which is single-wheeled drive, Only 1 wheel spis which makes it alot easier to turn and is for on-roading. If you want a on-road kart get a differential axle. You wont be able to drive off-road because single-wheel drive karts will spin out.
regarding the type of tube (round vs square) it doesn't really matter unless you plan to bend the tubing. sure it's possible to bend square tubing, but it takes one very expensive bender to do it even half decently, so sticking to round is pretty necessary when making a frame from as few pieces as possible, such as a rollcage.
in this case though, theres no bends and using round tubing in this exact frame would be kind of a nightmare to get the tubes to interlock. and round is often times 50% more expensive to buy. square is fine to use, it's just a question of how the design is.
in this case though, theres no bends and using round tubing in this exact frame would be kind of a nightmare to get the tubes to interlock. and round is often times 50% more expensive to buy. square is fine to use, it's just a question of how the design is.
The problem with square is you end up a$$ welding everything together. Round tubing can be bent and coped to fit very clean. That kind of power with an a$$ welded frame spells disaster if it does a roll or two. Do it once and do it right. Safety isn't something that should be overlooked just to take a few shortcuts. It's safe when you can comfortably place your kids in there and know that if it rolls, flips, endos or comes to a sudden dead stop, they will be protected. Nothing is for certain but there is no such thing as an accident.
Kenny_McCormic
Kartless....
Square is easy to bend, notch, bend, and weld.
I'm speaking from a safety stand point. I have built square tube chassis before. They just don't look nice and feel unsafe to me. Cut a notch and bend in a jig and you can get it to look ok but it's not that safe. Look at it this way, what do race cars use? Round tubing .120 wall hrew minimum. That's 1 3/4" diameter x 1/8"thick. There has to be a reason for this. I say do what you can with what you have but that is a $hit load of power you are gonna bolt to it. Even motorcycle chassis are round.
This is the style i build for my kids. Would easily handle that kinda power. If you look at the rear end you will see it was designed to be altered for a larger power plant when they learn how to shift. Frame costs about $150 in steel including the custom spindles,a arms and swing arm. If you dont have a bender then get one. You can get a manual bender and die for 400-500 bucks. Then all your buddies will want to build carts. You will make your money back fast.
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it really depends on the use. auto manufacturers almost never use round tubing and their designs work fine. i'd be more worried that the tubes dont match up perfect and that welds are used to fill the gaps which is no good.
i'm not sure what you mean by a$$ welding but if you mean bad welding, then it doesnt matter what kind of tube you use, it's just badly done. i have quite a few kit car builder firends and they [commercially] build chassis out of 1" 16gauge square tubing and they work really well, and the weight is about the same as a simpler round tube chassis with thicker tubing, but the square tube one is way more complex. the logic is if some welds fail, there's 2x to 3x the number of welds holding it all together. the strength is really down to the design, not the tubing.
all i'm saying is either choice is good, as long as you get the right kind of tubing (thick square = heavy and overkill, thin round = flexible and unsafe).
alot of offroad or racing chassis use round around the passenger cell because in the case of an accident, people wont bash their arms or heads on 90 degree corners.
i'm using square for the chassis but round around my head and body for that reason.
i'm not sure what you mean by a$$ welding but if you mean bad welding, then it doesnt matter what kind of tube you use, it's just badly done. i have quite a few kit car builder firends and they [commercially] build chassis out of 1" 16gauge square tubing and they work really well, and the weight is about the same as a simpler round tube chassis with thicker tubing, but the square tube one is way more complex. the logic is if some welds fail, there's 2x to 3x the number of welds holding it all together. the strength is really down to the design, not the tubing.
all i'm saying is either choice is good, as long as you get the right kind of tubing (thick square = heavy and overkill, thin round = flexible and unsafe).
alot of offroad or racing chassis use round around the passenger cell because in the case of an accident, people wont bash their arms or heads on 90 degree corners.
i'm using square for the chassis but round around my head and body for that reason.
perceptionist
New member
This is the welder I got:
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e738.pdf
In case the link doesn't work, it is a Lincoln Weld-Pak 125HD bought from Home Depot. Uses Flux Core wire or gas. I am currently practicing with the included Flux Core wire, then I am sure down the road I will experiment with the gas option to compare.
To be honest, I am not too concerned with looks on my kart. I am mostly concerned that it will take a beating and not bum us all out with downtime having to make repairs after every ride. I actually like the looks of it as it is now although that bar across the knees definitely needs to move as it makes it feel cramped, leg room lengthwise is fine though.
As for the live axle, I have been drawing up some ideas on how to design an axle that would provide the best of both worlds, check it out...
I have searched for a design that would do this but came up empty. Feedback would be appreciated on this rough draft of my concept.
I am still looking into a way to engage/disengage the live axle by way of a lever or some sort of control while driving or at least while parked and seated, otherwise I think it wouldn't be that hard to just get out and bolt the axles together for off road use, then stop and unbolt them for hard ground.
Criticism welcomed, remember I am totally new at this but that doesn't mean I am without imagination
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e738.pdf
In case the link doesn't work, it is a Lincoln Weld-Pak 125HD bought from Home Depot. Uses Flux Core wire or gas. I am currently practicing with the included Flux Core wire, then I am sure down the road I will experiment with the gas option to compare.
To be honest, I am not too concerned with looks on my kart. I am mostly concerned that it will take a beating and not bum us all out with downtime having to make repairs after every ride. I actually like the looks of it as it is now although that bar across the knees definitely needs to move as it makes it feel cramped, leg room lengthwise is fine though.
As for the live axle, I have been drawing up some ideas on how to design an axle that would provide the best of both worlds, check it out...
I have searched for a design that would do this but came up empty. Feedback would be appreciated on this rough draft of my concept.
I am still looking into a way to engage/disengage the live axle by way of a lever or some sort of control while driving or at least while parked and seated, otherwise I think it wouldn't be that hard to just get out and bolt the axles together for off road use, then stop and unbolt them for hard ground.
Criticism welcomed, remember I am totally new at this but that doesn't mean I am without imagination
Kenny_McCormic
Kartless....
That frame will be fine if you crossbrace it in a few places, maybe double up some of it.
perceptionist
New member
I was able to remove the set screws and axle key from the right wheel & u joint effectively defeating the "Live Axle" allowing me to turn on hard ground. I also had to quick weld a bar to keep the u joint from sliding off the axle temporarily for the test drive. This thing is friggin tough and really has potential, I ripped down the dirt alley behind my house. turns WAY to wide still, but much better with the rear wheels spinning independently.
Don't get me wrong, I do not plan to leave it that way, but after having the thing sit in my garage since I bought it, I just HAD to find SOME way to drive it just once before I went crazy!!
Now I have some ideas of what needs to be done, I need to learn some things first to see if my ideas can be applied though.
In my axle concept drawing above, I am wondering what could be used to keep the axle from sliding back & forth through the bearings, I considered using collars with set screws, but wouldn't these scrape against the bearing housing?
Hit me back with some ideas on making my drawing a reality, I really dig the idea of a split axle capable of going live if needed.
Don't get me wrong, I do not plan to leave it that way, but after having the thing sit in my garage since I bought it, I just HAD to find SOME way to drive it just once before I went crazy!!
Now I have some ideas of what needs to be done, I need to learn some things first to see if my ideas can be applied though.
In my axle concept drawing above, I am wondering what could be used to keep the axle from sliding back & forth through the bearings, I considered using collars with set screws, but wouldn't these scrape against the bearing housing?
Hit me back with some ideas on making my drawing a reality, I really dig the idea of a split axle capable of going live if needed.
what about the fact you only have brakes on 1 side? its fine if its only for slowly 'crossing' short segments of street but i wouldn't drive at any rate of speed knowing one wheel will lock up when braking and the other will potentially still be spinning with the motor. great for ripping tires apart in a J turn but really dangerous if someone or something appears in front of you. i'd just get dual brakes and solve that issue.
Perceptionist, 3 points:
a. You've got a lot of power.
b. You've got a minimalist chassis
c. You plan to do offroading
The risk of roll over is high coz of (c)(a) and with (a) it's gonna be nasty and thus must ensure that (b) is as strong as can be.
Thus 5trucks has got a solid argument - mandrel bent round tubing cannot be beaten and should be considered in this application
Anybody who's got a proper bender please put your hands up - I can't afford one so I'm compromising and planning my build around low speed + on road only.
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