newb in need of frame help/input

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springer

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hello all. new to the forum and i am ready to get started on my first kart. i am going to be using a HF 6.5, but beyond that, i am rather clueless. i want to get the frame built and just kind of build on it as i go.

here are some pics of what i have come up with so far. this is just what i have done purely from my imagination. i have no idea if this is realistic or not. feel free to give me some input or critique. frame is all 2x1x1/8 and 1x1x1/8. is that over kill? should i do al l1x1, or go down to 14ga? the wheelbase is rather long, which i dont mind if its do-able, but if they are better shorter, just let me know. wheelbase on this is about 7ft. any guidance or help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,





 

theo

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Looks good.
You have to change the hinging of your front a arms. The hinging bolts both have to be in line yours are angled to each other. Also you rear shocks will work better if you mount them more up and down, I would attach them to the swing arm forward links, then you can remove the structure around the engine.
 

furyus

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New to karting myself. I think the first question I'd have is what do you intend on doing with your kart? Your mock-up looks like it's intended for off-road mud-bogging. I'm no engineer by any stretch, but I'd say it might be stronger if that brace that makes up the rear of the frame to just up underneath the seat were to be integral with the front section of the frame, if that makes any sense. The rear shocks look completely ineffective, and the frame around the motor looks like dead weight to me. I'd also say a seven foot wheelbase, meaning your design is nearly eight feet long, is excessive. A kart that long and heavy with those size wheels will sink faster than the Titanic, too. I would go for a much shorter wheelbase depending on what the kart will be used for.

Unfortunately, if this design is for a road kart, it needs to go in the cyber circular file.

That being said, I think its very cool that you are designing your own kart. I'd like to do the same, but lack the knowledge and the shop/tools/skills to build one once I designed it. I'll be relying on the designs of folks smarter than I am, and hoping I don't eff it up too bad in execution! Please keep up your efforts.

furyus
 

springer

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Make a roll cage if you have a seat belt.
that seat is just something i downlaoded from the sketchup archives to keep from having to make one myself, as were the tires and engine. no need for a seat belt or roll cage.

Looks good.
You have to change the hinging of your front a arms. The hinging bolts both have to be in line yours are angled to each other. Also you rear shocks will work better if you mount them more up and down, I would attach them to the swing arm forward links, then you can remove the structure around the engine.
good catch on the a arm bolts, didnt even notice it. i'm not a sketch up pro, so sometimes i just get it too look right and forget about actual functionality. i think i will change the whole rear end area to address the shock and added useless weight issues.

New to karting myself. I think the first question I'd have is what do you intend on doing with your kart? Your mock-up looks like it's intended for off-road mud-bogging. I'm no engineer by any stretch, but I'd say it might be stronger if that brace that makes up the rear of the frame to just up underneath the seat were to be integral with the front section of the frame, if that makes any sense. The rear shocks look completely ineffective, and the frame around the motor looks like dead weight to me. I'd also say a seven foot wheelbase, meaning your design is nearly eight feet long, is excessive. A kart that long and heavy with those size wheels will sink faster than the Titanic, too. I would go for a much shorter wheelbase depending on what the kart will be used for.

Unfortunately, if this design is for a road kart, it needs to go in the cyber circular file.

That being said, I think its very cool that you are designing your own kart. I'd like to do the same, but lack the knowledge and the shop/tools/skills to build one once I designed it. I'll be relying on the designs of folks smarter than I am, and hoping I don't eff it up too bad in execution! Please keep up your efforts.

furyus

no real use in mind other than making a functional kart. no off roading in mind at this point, just want to create something that runs that i can say i built. on the wheel size, haven't decided yet, those pictured are just something to bring it together as a whole kart.

that frame is really overkill. with a two rail fram like that I think you'd be fine with 1/16" wall tubing

maybe i'll just do it all in 1x1 14ga. do you think that would be sufficient?



thanks for the input, as i'm sure you gathered, i really have no clue what is right, proper or acceptable. i am just going to wing it and hope i get something i can play around with. the main purpose once completed, will be as a pit bike of sort, just to play around with at the sand dunes. go to the bathroom, parts store or other peoples camp.

keep it coming, i need all the help i can get.
thanks,
 

furyus

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The main purpose once completed, will be as a pit bike of sort, just to play around with at the sand dunes. go to the bathroom, parts store or other peoples camp.

May I suggest narrowing your focus? A kart for banging around the pits is going to be different from a kart that works in the sand dunes which is going to be different from a kart you'd take on a camping trip (unless you're camping in the dunes, which is wonderful).

This board is a huge resource, and then there is the rest of the Internets to scour as well. I personally am trying to study whatever I can about karts as I get ready to undertake my first kart build. My focus is on road karts, ones that will perform on pavement or very hard dirt (mostly pavement). Eventually I'd like to take a stab at competition, but that's a few chapters down the road. When I find an article or post about off-road karts, I can quickly scan it for anything relevant or dismiss it outright. Point is, if you narrow your focus, especially on a first build, I think you'll increase your chances of success.

I'd also try and simplify as well. Look at how simple the older karts were back in the day. Designing and building a kart like those, from scratch, would be a huge accomplishment, and taking what you learn from that experience would go a long way towards building more sophisticated karts.

As for building a kart "to go to the bathroom," I'm stumped.

furyus
 

springer

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actually, i was talking about camping at the dunes, and yes, it is wonderful. this will not be for riding in the sand, just to screw around with at the camp site. as i said, there is no real purpose here, as i could just as easily ride my four wheelers where ever i wanted to go. it will prolly stay on pavement most of the time honestly. maybe think of me as one of those guys who buys a truck, puts 10" of lift and 38" tires, but then never goes off-road. i just want something to fabricate and be able to say i did. i could easily (maybe) build something simple with no suspension to complicate it, but i dont like simple as much. i enjoy problem solving and making things work. i am just a home hobby welder who needs a project.
 

furyus

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maybe think of me as one of those guys who buys a truck, puts 10" of lift and 38" tires, but then never goes off-road.

How about maybe I don't. Those guys irritate me.


I could easily (maybe) build something simple with no suspension to complicate it, but i dont like simple as much.

All right, fellow grasshopper, you are free to do as you wish. In my opinion, and you did ask for opinions/advise, simple is good, especially in the beginning. And, I might add, simple and clean equals sexy.

I will definitely be interested in following your build.

furyus
 

springer

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i agree, those guys irritate me too. yes, you are right, simple and clean does equal sexy... i do apprecaite the input, hopefully i will be able to get started next weekend as i already have all the materials for the frame.
 

porsche930dude

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i like the front end design youll need really short stout shocks like a monoshock from a mountain bike. But like others said the a arm pivots need to be corrected. I also like how the rear pivots up under the seat. but the shock mountings are wrong. you can eliminate the framing around the engine and where they mount behind the seat will be weak without triangulation. you should design it for a 12" shock
 

springer

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12" shock, is that common?? i have no idea, was just gonna see what shocks i could stumble across. thought about maybe using my stock banshee shocks, but i dont know. here is a very rough idea of a couple changes i made. does it look better??

i know there needs to be more bracing for the shock mounts and seat and all, but its a rough idea to get me started.

 

theo

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You don't need the 1x2 use 1x1 through out and raise the top rail so that it can be used as the upper mounting point for the shocks front and rear. You can use shocks off a quad or sled. I think that with the length of the swing arm you will some problems with twist, and to over come this might make the swing arm to heavy. If you plan on playing in sand the engine you want to use is to small, get a sled engine, and it will be cheaper.
 

porsche930dude

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1x2 is better for the swingarm it will keep it from twisting better without extra supports. I was thinking for the back swingarm the shock support was good high up behind the seat just with bracing down twords the front kinda wraping around the seat so that the shonk doesnt have a tendency to push it into the seat. Then the shocks would be down at a 45degree andle twords the back axle. 12" is a standard size for shocks yes. but they run from about 11 -13 depending on what their from
 
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