Need help identifying a frame

[88nightrider]

Hello everyone. This is my first cart project
I bought this used frame (does it show?? ) 2-3 years ago. Have not had the time to do anything with it yet... So it is just as I got it.
Former owner has modified it "a bit"

IDK what I have here. I was hoping someone might have some info about what this is (was). And if there are stil parts to be bought for it.
Even better if there are some upgrades for it (brakes!!!).

Hoping someone might know what the **** I got here

Thanks
- Yngve

 

[88nightrider]

Should there be any makings or somting stamped into the frame? Just so that I can get an identification...
If so I can check next time I get "home".
And the shaft looks like its not one pice. Looks like it is multiple (have not counted) 4-5 inch sections.
And as I said, I want to get some parts for it. Especially brake parts. Maybe some disc brakes at the front if it wont cost me a legg and an arm

 

[firemanjim]

Do you have drum front brakes?

 

[88nightrider]

Do you have drum front brakes?

Yes I do
They are mechanical too...
And I have no idea how the cable routing for them should be
I can see some of the old mounts for some of the wires. But many are missing.
Mechanical drum front brakes and hydraulic disc rear brake.

 

[88nightrider]

I propped the frame up and got some 25 more photos of it.
Here is the link to the album
I looked it over again and could not find any markings. Any tips to where there might be something to find the make/model?

 

[Felineman]

Check the right spindle mount kinda looks like a margay UNDER THE BOLT

 

[88nightrider]

Check the right spindle mount kinda looks like a margay UNDER THE BOLT

Have to check that tomorrow. Its 1am here

Have looked at a lot of frames. But the one I got, (have no idea if it should be this way) only have two bolts holding the "front clip" and "under tray".

I can't say I have found another one with that "look"...

 

[Felineman]

OK from what I see it looks like a home built Margay CLONE. The welds are too nasty and not many go kart builders leave open tube ends. There just too much like gusset joints and too many nasty welds. Its either pre 1960's Margay wasn't out then or homebuilt. I'm leaning towards the home built. Done nicely but home built. The extra support off the spindle mount, The bolts holding on welded parts just don't add up for factory built. Even the change in materials doesn't add up.

I vote well done home built based off the Margay of the early 1980's

 

[doggerss]

I am pretty sure it started as a factory frame that's been changed and modify a lot. Some of the nerd bars and bumpers were welded on at one time the front axle I'm sure is not original based on how it's mounts and not built into the frame the way the factory would also if you look at the tube were it joins 3 tube it looks like one tube was cut off which may have been were part of the original axle was. I wish I had it in front of me it would be easier to tel but I don't think it's home built just home modified which is also why matériel differs so much too.im not sure that it's a margay though doesn'tlook like the mmain structure of the frame with the triangle tube running front from any frame I know that they made.

 

[Felineman]

Ya its so dam hard to figure this one out. Lots of mods done to it.

 

[Poboy kartman]

OK-First things first- Welcome to the forum and please fill out your profile so we know where you are from. ......it will come in handy when sourcing parts.

Second- Since this thing has been modified so much. ....just forget about what it was. ...as far as parts.....just ask for what you need and what you have. ....we may actually figure out what it was faster that way. ...and can tell you whether replacement parts are plentiful or rare.....

 

[88nightrider]

OK-First things first- Welcome to the forum and please fill out your profile so we know where you are from. ......it will come in handy when sourcing parts.

Was done right after I registered here

Location: Norway, Sandnessjoen

Second- Since this thing has been modified so much. ....just forget about what it was. ...as far as parts.....just ask for what you need and what you have. ....we may actually figure out what it was faster that way. ...and can tell you whether replacement parts are plentiful or rare.....

Thanks
I think I might try to find another place to store it, so that I can begin the disassembly and not lose any parts

 

[landuse]

I think I might try to find another place to have it, so that I can begin the disassembly and not loose parts

I am not too sure what you mean here

 

[88nightrider]

I am not too sure what you mean here

Better now?

I have been off of forums for a couple of years now. And English is not my main language. So I need to refresh some of my English grammar (too bad it is better then my Norwegian grammar)...
So I appologize if I can't always get the spelling right

 

[landuse]

Better now?

I have been off of forums for a couple of years now. And English is not my main language. So I need to refresh some of my English grammar (too bad it is better then my Norwegian grammar)...
So I appologize if I can't always get the spelling right

There is need to apologise. I just wasn't too sure what you were trying to say there.

It is only when people post something that we cannot understand, and english is their home language, that we get irritated with grammer etc

 

[itsid]

Soooo

I'll make a guess then.. I think that thing began it's life as a concession kart
like maybe an early birel N-series:

or any A-frame rental kart
then it was chopped up and modified to what it is right now

cutting off the original spindle mounts and SCREW on another front axle? really??


[EDIT]
Nooooo,
I knew I've seen that before... and it reminded me of a birel;
but I wasn't even CLOSE

If it is what I think it is (and I'm quite positive about that)
It began it's life as a birel drag

see this:



Those basically changed a tiny bit with every single kart made.
All for high performance racing ...
and higher speeds and more control
look at this setup for example:


Sooo, if you can restore it to it's original state and glory;
I think it will be worth a fortune!
(as opposed to be rental kart which is worth nearly nothing )

contact birel
info[at]birel[dot]it
send maybe one or two pictures and ask for confirmation
do not forget to ask, if they have any information left on '68-'69 DRAG chassis


'sid

 

[88nightrider]

The bolts holding on welded parts just don't add up for factory built

Is it these you are referring to?

Check the right spindle mount kinda looks like a margay UNDER THE BOLT

Right

Left

cutting off the original spindle mounts and SCREW on another front axle? really??


[EDIT]
Nooooo,
I knew I've seen that before... and it reminded me of a birel;
but I wasn't even CLOSE

If it is what I think it is (and I'm quite positive about that)
It began it's life as a birel drag

see this:
View attachment 47134
View attachment 47135

Those basically changed a tiny bit with every single kart made.
All for high performance racing ...
and higher speeds and more control
look at this setup for example:
View attachment 47136

Thank you You might be onto something


At last I have started to disassemble the frame.

Rear brake caliper
Idk if it is worth repairing...

And caliper mounting plate

Front brake and spindle
Have not gotten around to taking the wheel off yet...

 

[88nightrider]

Front axle/assembly

And I'm just guessing that this (above) might originally have been mounted here (the two pictures below)

Frame

Where the original spindle mounts (presumably) would have been

 

[88nightrider]

Various mounting locations
I have no idea what they might have been for

I don't really know, but I'm thinking that the "holes" in the frame might have had the mounts for the seat

contact birel
info[at]birel[dot]it
send maybe one or two pictures and ask for confirmation
do not forget to ask, if they have any information left on '68-'69 DRAG chassis

I think I have to send them an email

Sooo, if you can restore it to it's original state and glory;
I think it will be worth a fortune!
(as opposed to be rental kart which is worth nearly nothing )

Can at least hope
I won't make any decision on that before I get some more info about what I actually got here

 

[itsid]

A-frame race karts are rare.. I can remember two or three
apart from the birel drag.. a Zip Astronaut and Zip Concorde...
well four if you count an unknown kart in that also had an A-frame

The birel N series rental karts are still being made, and I guess a few other companies are out there making such things.

BUT proper race karts.. a few.. very few!
And since your's a shifter with front brakes, I'm fairl certain it WAS a proper race kart.

So no matter if it's a birel or not (it's not a Zip I can say that much )
it'll be worth a pretty penny... as soon as it is restored and you know what it is.


Now back to your kart..
Mk I and Mk II had their rear axle bearings in tubes (intersecting the side rails)
see the Mk II here:


your tube is interchangeable, most likely to mount different sized axles (or at least have the opportunity to do so)
since the mounting plate is welded.. I'd leave it as it is (might be original)
that (2014-04-10203356.jpg) is where the original master cylinder was mounted I believe.

'sid