Need help/ideas on an Electric go kart

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Jammer

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Hey everyone!
I'm working on an electric go kart from scratch right now, got the frame pretty much finished up.

I need some advice/tips in these areas, tell me if it's okay, or if i should change it

I was planing on getting a 3hp electric motor.

I am using bicycle tires right now, I know their huge, but I didn't want to bother having to buy smaller ones.

I have no clue if it'll work, but I thought it would be convenient to get a light dimmer switch for the throttle, will it be able to carry enough power?

I want it to be solar powered, hoping it'll charge during the week and I can go for a ride on the weekends, will it work?

For all that, I have about a $500 budget, so try to make suggestions with that in mind.
 

anderkart

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A dimmer switch like houses use wont even come close to handling the amperage your motor will require.
A dimmer switch like cars use would either be fully on or off, and can only handle around maybe 30 amps of current flow. (still not high enough to handle the amperage draw of a 3 hp motor)
 

zabac70

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Solar powered go kart, in a way that you've imagined it, isn't possible (especially with that budget). You can charge up batteries during the week with solar power , but for whole weekend of fun you'll need a few battery packs to switch , when they discharge (discharge rate is so much quicker than charging with solar panels(or with anything else for that matter) , unless you have huge surface filled with panels and some lithium based batteries). Batteries can hold up energy only as they are rated (AH - Amp Hour) , which means when they are charged - they are charged, doesn't matter if you charge them a week or a day or hour.
Power of electric motors is measured in W (Watts , or KW - kilowatts) , which you get when you multiply Volts * Amps = W (power). 3 HP (approximately 2.2 KW) could mean many different variables (in terms of Amps and Volts) , so I can't advice here. Plainly said , you can have that 3 HP with great torque and a speed of a snail or super speed and a torque of paper windmill or something in between. As posted before me , you'll definitely need a controller (matched to a motor) and some kind of "throttle" , which are (usually) potentiometers(for simpler setups) , connected to a controller. That could be achieved with your budget (solar panels not included, neither reserve battery packs). If you provide more information , we'll be able to help you more.
 

Jammer

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here is a Microsoft paint image of the frame. (sorry the pic's so small) I don't own my own camera. I was planning to get the steering and braking system done next weekend. (possibly on Monday) I included measurements.

I am hoping to have started the electrical system in two weeks.

by the way, I am REALLY new to a lot of these terms, what exactly is a speed controler, (excluding the entirely obvious) ad where could I get 1?

oh! Also, I wasn't planning on living on my go kart all weekend, I would be happy with just a 60-30 minute ride, is that still expecting too much?
 

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KieranM

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A speed controller is used on electrical motors to control the speed the shaft moves at. It is the same as a carburettor/throttle set up on a engine, but just imagine that in electrical form on a electrical motor. It basically speeds up or down the motor as a dimmer switch in a house dims the lights. Most people in robotics use these as they are the best and safest way to control robots. bare in mind that these controllers are not cheap.

here are what they look like
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/vantec_rdfr_speed_controllers.html

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/vantec_ret_speed_controllers.html

As regards to your solar setup, i like where you are coming from and how it would be convenient as it does not always need to be a nice day, but remember that you would need a large setup as they do not produce alot energy, but they are perfect at converting the energy (light to chemical). as zobac said no matter how long you charge batteries it will not change the power that they will put out.

I suggest that you buy a battery and charger as it is a simpler design and it is alot easier to work with.
 

Jammer

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Thanks for the link, but I truly am a complete newbie at go karting and have no clue on which 1 I should get. Can you recommend 1 for me? (even if it's expensive, i guess I'll just have to start working a bit again)

About the solar panel thing, my parents are strongly against me sucking up power form the house with this thing, so I guess we need to get a bit creative for energy sources. I am defiantly not counting on just powering directly off solar panels, I know that much, I was planing on buying this monster battery. I don't know off the top of my head how big it is, buy we use it in our chicken coop for heating and lighting and we charge it by a small solar panel on the roof. Thats where i got the Idea i could try this on my go kart.
 

zabac70

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Your parents don't want you to suck up electricity ? For one charge , you'll be looking at about the same amount of electricity that your refrigerator spends in same amount of time (gasoline is more expensive than that, for sure, otherwise , everybody would run their houses from generators). However , I support "green" stuff (solar panels e.g.) so go with that.
You should do some research in electrical stuff first , go kart stuff (mechanics) is easier to comprehend anyway. Try some e bike/scooter forums - they have plenty of information and "how to" instructables, cause they are specialized. Google it. We are ready to help anyway , but you must do your homework :) .
Check this for parts (but keep close eye on e bay - in order to stay with your budget) : http://www.evparts.com/cat-Bicycle+-+Scooter.htm
 

Jammer

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That link was really helpful, thx.
Back to my problem with speed controllers v.s money. KieranM, will the throttles on that site work? they were a heckload cheaper too.

I'm still trying to find a 3 hp electric motor, do you know any sites that I could find info on 1 at. The www.evparts.com website's motors are either way to powerful, or only 1000 watts. zabac70 said that 3 hp is equivalent to 2200 watts. I am hoping I could find 1 at a great price at the flea market
 

KieranM

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If i was going down the road of electrics i would go this way. a 3hp motor will cost you alot as it produces alot of power in a single application that is why they are priced so high. The way i would do it is use 2 lower power motors to produce the power you need.

These motors are designed to give extra power to scooters so 2 of these would produce the power you would need. You would want to have two separate axles, going on the idea of most robots.
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/36vo10mo.html

You can then use these speed contoler to control the speed they spin to have both going at the same rpm

http://www.evparts.com/prod-CT5323.htm
 

zabac70

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If i was going down the road of electrics i would go this way. a 3hp motor will cost you alot as it produces alot of power in a single application that is why they are priced so high. The way i would do it is use 2 lower power motors to produce the power you need.

These motors are designed to give extra power to scooters so 2 of these would produce the power you would need. You would want to have two separate axles, going on the idea of most robots.
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/36vo10mo.html

You can then use these speed controller to control the speed they spin to have both going at the same rpm

http://www.evparts.com/prod-CT5323.htm
If he do that (assuming that both motors would spin at the same speed - which NEVER happens, due to a small differences in motors) , he will get in trouble when cornering (outer drive wheel should spin faster then inner wheel - so he will end up in a hedge). Type of the controller that you talking about is really hi tech and sophisticated (way out Jammer budget). It could be done by some sensors on the steering wheel (to switch off inner wheel drive, when cornering) , but it's kind of complicated (not for those with know how).
@Jammer
You didn't read what I posted well. Power (W or KW) = Amps * Volts .That means, if you have 2 KW motor (2000 Watts) and run it on 48 Volts , you'll be sucking up (that is your motor via controller) 2000 W / 48 V = 41.666 Amps (your controller should be able to withstand 50 Amps); if you run on 36 Volts , the math says that your motor will use 55.555 Amps , so you go with controller rated at 60 Amps (always higher).
It's important for you to understand that Volts means speed (more rpm) and the Amps means power/torque. Torque is the thing that moves vehicle (go kart) around. Power just means what it's capable of (that is the work done by system in a unit of time - I bet you like it so far - physics:devil2:). If you're satisfied with speed , the only way to ramp up the power (acceleration) is to let more Amps trough motor (and , therefore , trough controller). So you'll need a stronger controller (that means it can take more Amps).
Controllers are rated in Amps and Volts (that is simplifying for you to understand), so when you want to order one , and there (on the site) is rating in Watts , you should call the people that sells the stuff and ask for the Amp rating (if you know what voltage is - you can calculate it yourself by using above formula).
Now , HP rating vs KW rating isn't straight forward to deal with. In internal combustion engine the efficiency of the motor is around 20 - 25 % (in modern cars up to 28 %). The efficiency of electric motor is 85 % upwards (generalization - it depends of type and construction of motor). Roughly , if you deal 85% by 20% , you get 4.25:1 ratio in efficiency , between electric and internal combustion motor - you can round it to 4:1 ratio. 1HP = 0.75KW so 3HP = 3*0.75KW = 2.25 KW. Remember , the electric motor is about 4 times more efficient so 2.25 / 4 = 0.5625 KW , which is ~562,5 W. That is what you need if you want the equivalent of 3HP. So , to avoid some glitches (imperfections in our calculation) and system loses (mechanical and other), you'll be good at 1000 W (1 KW) motor. You can buy a 36 V motor , cause you can over volt it without any problems twice that voltage. Only consideration is current (Amps). Ratings of the motor and controller , that I've wrote of, are continuous ratings , they peak much more (e.g. when you starting go kart from a stand still) but that shouldn't be your concern , cause manufacturers count on that when designing the stuff.
For 24 Volts system (batteries) , you'll need 24V / ~40 Amps controller , for 36 Volts - controller is 36 V / ~30 Amps , for 48 Volts - controller is 48V / ~20 Amps. If I were you , I would go with controller with rating of 40 - 50 Amps (no matter what the voltage is). 36 Volt system is ok , better 48 Volt system(less strain on the batteries and plenty of oomph to go arround and some more range).
Shop around (I've said it before : Google) and see what can be obtained on E bay or , generally , on the net.
Hope that this cleared some things and helps.
 

KieranM

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yes its obvious that you would have issues cornering if both motors are running at same rpm, pretty similar to what happens with a 2 wheel drive kart,live axle. there is a simple setup that can be thought up to disengage the motor at the side you are turning as the motors do not lock up once power is cut.
 

Jammer

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thx, I really appreciate your feedback. I won't be able to really think about it until this weekend, but I truly thing I am getting the hang of all this.
 

Jammer

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I am gunna finish up my steering system this weekend, using the idea from this site, so that's easy textbook stuff. I also figured out a way to brake without doing anything fancy. I'm taking a bicycle steering system and using that on my back wheels, fairly simple. If I can, I'll make a video when I do a downhill test for you guys to check out.(without motor, just testing steering and brakes)
 

Qmavam

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yes its obvious that you would have issues cornering if both motors are running at same rpm, pretty similar to what happens with a 2 wheel drive kart,live axle. there is a simple setup that can be thought up to disengage the motor at the side you are turning as the motors do not lock up once power is cut.

You guys have anything to convince me that a motor on each
rear wheel is a real problem? I don't see it as a concern. The inside wheel will get pinched down by friction and slow down, the outside wheel go faster because of less load.
If you have any references about this, please post them.
I consider a solid axle more of a problem.
Mike
 

KieranM

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If you are to corner keeping both motors at the same rpm the inside wheel will want to slow down as its not travelling as much as the outside wheel. If you do not slow the motor down it will try to spin faster than the wheel causing strain or the chain and sprocket. its why cars have diffs
 

zabac70

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You guys have anything to convince me that a motor on each
rear wheel is a real problem? I don't see it as a concern. The inside wheel will get pinched down by friction and slow down, the outside wheel go faster because of less load.
If you have any references about this, please post them.
I consider a solid axle more of a problem.
Mike
As KieranM said (and I paraphrase it) , the inner wheel wouldn't slow down. We are talking about electric motors, so one of two things can happen : either inner wheel is held by friction (stopped) and it will blow the fuse or melt (pulling to much amps) or it will (more likely) spin freely (burn out) and steering would be compromised or it will brake drive (chain , sprocket , axle or whatever). It is very hard to "stall" electric motor like internal combustion engine and it usually end in tears. Diff is solution for this, or very very smart dual controller. If kart is pure for fun some kind of freewheel on the ends of the live axle would do the job.
 
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