Motor/Motor Power Recommendations

[rexmatt]

Hello Everyone,
I recently posted about how I wanted to do a 4x4 electric go kart with hub motors, but the great itsid gave me some great advice and recommended doing RWD using a Tecumseh Peerless 100 differential.
He told me to cut off the ends and replace with U joints to do the full suspension, but I have since decided to just go with a solid rear axle.
Now I have to begin to think about my motor choice. I would like something in the 8-10hp range with a peak of maybe twice that. Does anybody know any good motors for this application?
Additional questions about Peerless 100 rear axle;
Couldn’t find any dimensions, but the axle seems to be a bit short, does anybody know how long it is, and if it is possible to replace it with a longer axle?
Can the Peerless 100 and axle handle the power of such an high power motor?
Thanks!

 

[itsid]

Sorry, but you sound like a pubertarian to me currently

So allow me to ask two questions first,

1) How old are you? (Be honest, since frankly a young one is very well allowed to ask questions a grown adult is no longer)

2) What are you willing to spend? (since with the above you are looking at something in the realms of 4k dollars PLUS the actual vehicle)

'sid

PS ME0708 is capable of delivering such horsepowers (5kW cont, 15kW peak)
but you don't need any of that I bet.

 

[rexmatt]

I’m 14, what do you mean by a pubertarian? The budget is $5000, but that can stretch if need be.
I just really want something high performance, something that can throw me back in the seat during acceleration, I really don’t have any way to gauge how much horsepower I need, so please let me know what you think about that.

 

[itsid]

I’m 14, what do you mean by a pubertarian?

Well when puberty hits you,
hormones mess with your brain;
and in essence many ideas a pubertarian mind comes up with
are either plain stupid, terribly dangerous or overly egocentric
examples:
"I'm soo in love with that *random pop star* I never met in person, he's the only one understanding me"
"Oh sure I dare to go 60mph on a mini bike without a helmet on public roads... no risk no fun, right?"
"God Mom, why are you doing everything just to embarrass me?"

And if you know someone your age that any of this sounds like a quote from... pubertarian!

Now back to topic:
You need to do a lot of googling around I'm afraid..
Since as of now your in the random "I just want fun" phase
as it seems and thus it'd be tedious to find you everything you need just to see you change your mind again in a few days.

How about you first find out where and how you are wanting to use the kart in the end.
doesn't make much sense to find the tallest and widest drag racing slicks if you want to crawl through the wood,
doesn't make any sense to have a 2ft suspension travel if all you need is run down a paved road etc..

It helps if you're good in school (math & physics help a lot!)

So google the ME0708 motor for example (MARS or Motenergy isn't important)
read about it's specs, find a matching motor controller.
calculate the needed amount for batteries
(where's the fun in a kart you can only run for 5 minutes at a time just to have it recharge 10 hrs afterwards ?)

And when you collected that information and calculated the drivetrain results (costs per power and ride time per capacity)
think about your fabbing skills..
can you make a rigid enough chassis to run all that or are you going to buy one instead, and if "buying" is the answer (it should be!)
then which one, where to get it and what will it cost?
If DIY is the answer, then have you got the tools?
A decent welder, a tube bender, a tube notcher...
a big enough workspace etc.
And if not, what will it cost to get what's missing?

Have you access to enough helping hands
Sometimes you need more than two hands to make something big.
So you might need some help, sometimes adult supervision (experienced adults that is)
And in the end you will get stuck at some point.

And this is where we can help, you can pick our brains if you can't find someone around with the needed experience.

Take notes of every bit of information you go in that regard,
do not underestimate the costs for smaller things (pedals, steering, nuts and bolts, wires, contactors, connectors etc..)

Take a good look at some build logs,
you can learn alot by watching others do a similar thing.

Personally I'd recommend you following one of Functional Artist's builds first..
you can see how well the much smaller motors he uses perform.
And you will have to spend much less for your initial build.
(and if done well you can still upgrade later on )

'sid

 

[Budget GoKart]

"Oh sure I dare to go 60mph on a mini bike without a helmet on public roads... no risk no fun, right?"
Hey who are you talking about here...

 

[Functional Artist]

Well when puberty hits you,
hormones mess with your brain;
and in essence many ideas a pubertarian mind comes up with
are either plain stupid, terribly dangerous or overly egocentric
examples:
"I'm soo in love with that *random pop star* I never met in person, he's the only one understanding me"
"Oh sure I dare to go 60mph on a mini bike without a helmet on public roads... no risk no fun, right?"
"God Mom, why are you doing everything just to embarrass me?"

And if you know someone your age that any of this sounds like a quote from... pubertarian!

Now back to topic:
You need to do a lot of googling around I'm afraid..
Since as of now your in the random "I just want fun" phase
as it seems and thus it'd be tedious to find you everything you need just to see you change your mind again in a few days.

How about you first find out where and how you are wanting to use the kart in the end.
doesn't make much sense to find the tallest and widest drag racing slicks if you want to crawl through the wood,
doesn't make any sense to have a 2ft suspension travel if all you need is run down a paved road etc..

It helps if you're good in school (math & physics help a lot!)

So google the ME0708 motor for example (MARS or Motenergy isn't important)
read about it's specs, find a matching motor controller.
calculate the needed amount for batteries
(where's the fun in a kart you can only run for 5 minutes at a time just to have it recharge 10 hrs afterwards ?)

And when you collected that information and calculated the drivetrain results (costs per power and ride time per capacity)
think about your fabbing skills..
can you make a rigid enough chassis to run all that or are you going to buy one instead, and if "buying" is the answer (it should be!)
then which one, where to get it and what will it cost?
If DIY is the answer, then have you got the tools?
A decent welder, a tube bender, a tube notcher...
a big enough workspace etc.
And if not, what will it cost to get what's missing?

Have you access to enough helping hands
Sometimes you need more than two hands to make something big.
So you might need some help, sometimes adult supervision (experienced adults that is)
And in the end you will get stuck at some point.

And this is where we can help, you can pick our brains if you can't find someone around with the needed experience.

Take notes of every bit of information you go in that regard,
do not underestimate the costs for smaller things (pedals, steering, nuts and bolts, wires, contactors, connectors etc..)

Take a good look at some build logs,
you can learn alot by watching others do a similar thing.

Personally I'd recommend you following one of Functional Artist's builds first..
you can see how well the much smaller motors he uses perform.
And you will have to spend much less for your initial build.
(and if done well you can still upgrade later on )

'sid

Yup, do lots of research

I'd start off with lookin' at maybe a 48V 1,000W MY1020 type set-up (~$100.00)
…& put 'er on a "nice" used kart (~$500.00)

They are super simple to set-up
...& have plenty of power (to begin your adventures)

Then you can upgrade it's power & performance
...as your knowledge & ability grows

 

[itsid]

"Oh sure I dare to go 60mph on a mini bike without a helmet on public roads... no risk no fun, right?"
Hey who are you talking about here...

mentally instable brains in general
(this is a stupid idea no matter what age you are)..
pubertarian ones specifically
(since those sometimes CANNOT see the danger thanks to hormones messing with their brains).

But that's not this threads topic,
I only explained what rexmatt requested me to explain.

'sid

 

[rexmatt]

Well when puberty hits you,
hormones mess with your brain;
and in essence many ideas a pubertarian mind comes up with
are either plain stupid, terribly dangerous or overly egocentric
examples:
"I'm soo in love with that *random pop star* I never met in person, he's the only one understanding me"
"Oh sure I dare to go 60mph on a mini bike without a helmet on public roads... no risk no fun, right?"
"God Mom, why are you doing everything just to embarrass me?"

And if you know someone your age that any of this sounds like a quote from... pubertarian!

Now back to topic:
You need to do a lot of googling around I'm afraid..
Since as of now your in the random "I just want fun" phase
as it seems and thus it'd be tedious to find you everything you need just to see you change your mind again in a few days.

How about you first find out where and how you are wanting to use the kart in the end.
doesn't make much sense to find the tallest and widest drag racing slicks if you want to crawl through the wood,
doesn't make any sense to have a 2ft suspension travel if all you need is run down a paved road etc..

It helps if you're good in school (math & physics help a lot!)

So google the ME0708 motor for example (MARS or Motenergy isn't important)
read about it's specs, find a matching motor controller.
calculate the needed amount for batteries
(where's the fun in a kart you can only run for 5 minutes at a time just to have it recharge 10 hrs afterwards ?)

And when you collected that information and calculated the drivetrain results (costs per power and ride time per capacity)
think about your fabbing skills..
can you make a rigid enough chassis to run all that or are you going to buy one instead, and if "buying" is the answer (it should be!)
then which one, where to get it and what will it cost?
If DIY is the answer, then have you got the tools?
A decent welder, a tube bender, a tube notcher...
a big enough workspace etc.
And if not, what will it cost to get what's missing?

Have you access to enough helping hands
Sometimes you need more than two hands to make something big.
So you might need some help, sometimes adult supervision (experienced adults that is)
And in the end you will get stuck at some point.

And this is where we can help, you can pick our brains if you can't find someone around with the needed experience.

Take notes of every bit of information you go in that regard,
do not underestimate the costs for smaller things (pedals, steering, nuts and bolts, wires, contactors, connectors etc..)

Take a good look at some build logs,
you can learn alot by watching others do a similar thing.

Personally I'd recommend you following one of Functional Artist's builds first..
you can see how well the much smaller motors he uses perform.
And you will have to spend much less for your initial build.
(and if done well you can still upgrade later on )

'sid

Thanks!
I am a teenager, but I don’t really fit into the category that most people my age do (Illogical, dangerous, spontaneous). I really think through things before doing, and I do lots of planning before hand. I apologize that my lack of experience building something this size has made me sound like a “pubertarian” as you say, I really just don’t have any sense as to how much power most go karts have. I have built a few electric skateboards, but I am most fascinated with cars, and a go karts are the closest things to a small car that I can build. I have been planning to do one for years now, but I finally feel like I have all of the resources necessary, welder, lithium battery knowledge, understanding of Ackermann steering geometry, money, etc.

Back to the kart,
Thanks for all of the good tips, I appreciate it!
I own an ARC welder, and I have access to a MIG if I need to use it. My grandpa has a barn/workshop for me to weld in with more tools than I could ever need for this project.
I don’t want a crazy high top speed (maybe 30mph), the main thing I want is that electric torque.
As for on/off road I would like to use it to have some fun in the bumpy grass of my uncles ranch and grandpas farm, but I also want to use it to get from job to job in my city. So I don’t need TONS of suspension travel, just enough for absorbing some off road shocks. Same with the tires, something that will work fine for on and off road.
What are your thoughts on that?

EDIT:
Forgot to mention the frame, I am planning to weld the frame, and I believe I can make it nice and rigid. Buying would be a good option, but there really isnt anything I can find that fits my needs (largely due to the fact that they are designed for gas engines, and very expensive).

 

[itsid]

Hey Matt, no need to apologize for anything!

I just wanted to explain why it's
a) hard to make a good suggestion, with the little info we're working with
and
b) tedious to try as long as you haven't settled for anything but allegedly motor power (which is a very lousy decision to make as the first one)

We've been teenagers ourselves and some of us can still remember

But it's in fact the research thing that we cannot avoid asking you to do yourself.
YOU need to know what terrain, you need to know what capabilities you have and what tools you have access to etc.
And this kart idea hasn't been thought through at all yet (which your few posts clearly show)
And again: that's nothing we would hold against you;
but it's as I said nothing we can help you with I'm afraid.

Once you know, we're here to help.

'sid

 

[Functional Artist]

As for converting a gas powered kart to electric
...if you haven't seen/read this. I'd start here
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37442

...& if you really want to build your own frame, this thread has some good info
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=38905

...how powerful are these electric karts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJQl4b-8Ow

 

[rexmatt]

Hey Matt, no need to apologize for anything!

I just wanted to explain why it's
a) hard to make a good suggestion, with the little info we're working with
and
b) tedious to try as long as you haven't settled for anything but allegedly motor power (which is a very lousy decision to make as the first one)

We've been teenagers ourselves and some of us can still remember

But it's in fact the research thing that we cannot avoid asking you to do yourself.
YOU need to know what terrain, you need to know what capabilities you have and what tools you have access to etc.
And this kart idea hasn't been thought through at all yet (which your few posts clearly show)
And again: that's nothing we would hold against you;
but it's as I said nothing we can help you with I'm afraid.

Once you know, we're here to help.

'sid

Thank you guys for the help, really learning a lot here.