Most power for the money?

karl

karl

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Calm down, nearly every piece of power equipment make in the world is not broken in on break in oil, let alone royal purple.

The master engine builders guide by gary fisher actually recommends straight 30 weight non detergent lubricating oil
with NO additives for engine break in.

But that does look a bit dark/ glittery . I would change the oil, run it again for 20min, and see what the outcome is like.
 
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Willie1

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One school of thought is that if the oil lubricity is too high the spinnie wearie parts don't break in, due to not enough friction.
 
madprofessor

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Willie1 said:
if the oil lubricity is too high the spinnie wearie parts don't break in, due to not enough friction.
Click to expand...
Very true, but here's something that surprised me.................Just double-checked the owner manual online, since the last time I read one (hardcopy from a hemi) it said to use straight 30 weight oil from first start to finish. Surprise! Manual for both hemi and non-hemi now say 10W-30 down to 32-degrees, and 5W-30 below that. That's a thinner, higher lubricity oil mix.
There's been plenty of discussion here about break-in oils, and even the doubters say it can't hurt. Agnostics say it can only help. Believers like me not only believe in break-in oil, but absolutely eschew the use of any "break-in additives" added to straight oil instead.
Final analysis: If a couple of extra bucks isn't going to hurt you any, use a high quality break-in oil. If not, follow the manual.
..............and there's still a lot of shiny metal in that oil. Would like to hear some more opinions on those pics.
 
madprofessor

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Crankcase has too much shiny bits in it, just like the oil picture.
Rod's bearing surface shouldn't have any marks on it at all, should be smooth as a baby's backside. It looks like it was started up dry, then got itself some oil afterward (the straight-on picture). I say it got oil after because it would likely be blackened to a degree if it ran 20 minutes dry, would have likely seized up before 20 minutes could pass anyway. Blackening of that surface would have indicated overheating via no lubrication.
See this link for a .020" over-factory-stock-length ARC (Amundsen Research Corp.) piston rod............. ARC Billet Alum Rod (3.328"+.020) Predator 212cc Read for Application | eBay. I'm specifying ARC (arcracing.com) because.............The tip of the splash arm is ground to a "cup" that doesn't just splash into the oil, the "cup" helps it to efficiently sling the oil too. The biggest advantage though, is that the arm has been drilled through its entire length all the way to the inside of the bearing surface, and the "cup" helps force oil through that drilled passage to lubricate the bearing surface, something you could have used. Another thing is that the ARC comes with bearings that snap into the rod halves, as opposed to direct rod-to-crank contact, and the bearings have a hole in them for the oil entering from that passage to directly lube the rod bearing/crank journal contact.
With your warranty replacement engine, tilt it way back, put as much of a quart of oil in it as you can, and put the dipstick back in. DO NOT pull on the pullrope! Just rock and roll the engine all around to coat everything in the crankcase with oil, it's all dry as a bone when you get it. Don't invert it so that any oil can get up on top of the piston. Drain all of the oil and save it for something else, and put in a half quart of Royal Purple Break-in Oil..............Royal Purple 11487 Royal Purple Break-In Oil | Summit Racing.
Didn't mention because it's obvious, but drain all oil and fuel from that damaged engine, carefully put it back together exactly the way it came out of the box, and go warranty swap it for a free new one. Say it made really bad knocking noises after startup. Must look like you never put a wrench on it beyond just bolting it down to the piece of equipment it was for.
 
Kartin’ kid

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madprofessor said:
Crankcase has too much shiny bits in it, just like the oil picture.
Rod's bearing surface shouldn't have any marks on it at all, should be smooth as a baby's backside. It looks like it was started up dry, then got itself some oil afterward (the straight-on picture). I say it got oil after because it would likely be blackened to a degree if it ran 20 minutes dry, would have likely seized up before 20 minutes could pass anyway. Blackening of that surface would have indicated overheating via no lubrication.
See this link for a .020" over-factory-stock-length ARC (Amundsen Research Corp.) piston rod............. ARC Billet Alum Rod (3.328"+.020) Predator 212cc Read for Application | eBay. I'm specifying ARC (arcracing.com) because.............The tip of the splash arm is ground to a "cup" that doesn't just splash into the oil, the "cup" helps it to efficiently sling the oil too. The biggest advantage though, is that the arm has been drilled through its entire length all the way to the inside of the bearing surface, and the "cup" helps force oil through that drilled passage to lubricate the bearing surface, something you could have used. Another thing is that the ARC comes with bearings that snap into the rod halves, as opposed to direct rod-to-crank contact, and the bearings have a hole in them for the oil entering from that passage to directly lube the rod bearing/crank journal contact.
With your warranty replacement engine, tilt it way back, put as much of a quart of oil in it as you can, and put the dipstick back in. DO NOT pull on the pullrope! Just rock and roll the engine all around to coat everything in the crankcase with oil, it's all dry as a bone when you get it. Don't invert it so that any oil can get up on top of the piston. Drain all of the oil and save it for something else, and put in a half quart of Royal Purple Break-in Oil..............Royal Purple 11487 Royal Purple Break-In Oil | Summit Racing.
Didn't mention because it's obvious, but drain all oil and fuel from that damaged engine, carefully put it back together exactly the way it came out of the box, and go warranty swap it for a free new one. Say it made really bad knocking noises after startup. Must look like you never put a wrench on it beyond just bolting it down to the piece of equipment it was for.
Click to expand...
First off, I do have an ARC rod. Stock length. Second off, I did make sure to tilt it all around to get as much oil in the important spot as I could. Maybe just not enough. Third off, I paid an extra 20 bucks for the one year unlimited warranty knowing something like this might happen since this is my first time modifying an engine and specifically made sure to ask if it was valid even if I modified it and they said yes. I’ll still put it back together as much as possible. The one thing I’m worried about is the cam I put in it. Is there a risk of it being damaged? Same with the rod. I’ll obviously have to replace the bearings but will the rod be OK?
 
madprofessor

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Okay, I see the ARC bearings now. Still disturbed by that gouging. About the rod being undamaged or not, I'm sure the bearings protected it, just need new bearings.
Hey, wait a minute, $20 for that warranty? I had to pay $50 the one time I did it. Congrats.
About cam okay or not, check the bottom of the lifters for imperfection in the flat surface. If the cam was able to wear a slight hollow into them, they may have in turn worn down the cam lobes a bit, or folded them. They weren't hardened up yet.
About break-in oil: Firstly, know that I'm OCD enough that it could probably rate a clinical diagnosis. Everybody has an opinion on oils..................
karl said:
Calm down, nearly every piece of power equipment make in the world is not broken in on break in oil, let alone royal purple.
Click to expand...
madprofessor said:
even the doubters say it can't hurt. Agnostics say it can only help.
Click to expand...
You can't buy a Big Mac for the extra money it costs for a good break-in oil like Royal Purple. I won't start another round of kick-the-can on the virtues of break-in oil, already sick of repeating myself on the subject, and folks are likely sick of hearing it from me.
 
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gmotz

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uhhh did anyone tell this kid to use assembly lube? All this talk about fancy name snake oil break in lube and i didn't see anything about installing the cam, rod, piston, wrist pin with engine assembly lube. In an engine without a pressurized lube system thats EXTRA important. I would make a plug for running Rotella or something else with high ZZDP but last thing i want to do is make this an oil thread.

The crank might actually be ok, we would have to see pics. If you got exceptionally lucky the shell bearings on the ARC rod might have taken all the damage, and you might be able to just order new shell bearings and put everything back together.

honestly i'm all about learing according to FA/FO but typically its good to start small and 'find out' using cheap stock trash, before you start wasting what little money you have on a bunch of fancy billet you're going to turn into scrap metal.
 
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gmotz

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gmotz

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sorry if i'm coming off like a dick, this is the kind of stuff you only mess up once. 20 years from now when you're my age you will have f'd up so many things that you'll only have a few mistakes left to make, and the engines you build will be rock solid.
 
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