Kartin’ kid
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Would you recommend I do this on mine?
Most power for the money?
- Thread starter Kartin’ kid
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Denny
Canned Monster
A longer rod will help raise the compression also. Talk about a cheap power gain! No money and still getting a beefier rod.
Kartin’ kid
Active member
My unreturnable billet rod (stock length) is already on its way. so do you recommend a thinner head gasket to help raise compression or leave it as is
panchothedog
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Longer rod can put the piston too close to the head, requiring a thicker head gasket. Some what cancelling the gain of the longer rod. Post # 37 by Flash and # 38 by Denny are VERY IMPORTANT. You can check piston to valve clearance by doing with clay as he described. Coil bind is a little more complicated to check. If when the valve is fully open you need to be able to insert a feeler gage set at .060" between the spring coils. Ratio rockers are expensive. You don't want to find out they won't work after you have already bought them. SO to check before hand figure out what total lift will be. ( Cam
lift x 1.2 or 1.3 ) with head off of engine, depress valve that amount and then
measure space between spring coils. You will need at a minimum, a jig or a
vise to hold the head. A valve spring compressor or huge C clamp to depress
the valve, and a dial indicator to let you know how far it has moved in
increments of .001" . You can't be sloppy at it or it will be all for nothing. I would suggest you buy a set of CHAMPION shaft mounted rockers. They are cheap, $28. They help eliminate friction, and at higher RPM are much more stable than the stock rockers. You are trying to go somewhere you might not be
qualified to go yet. Stay with the simple bolt on stuff for now. Build and enjoy your engine. You can always put in stiffer springs and a bigger cam later when
finances allow. If you will remember that is why I changed my first recommendation back to something you could afford. Take it one step at a time.
lift x 1.2 or 1.3 ) with head off of engine, depress valve that amount and then
measure space between spring coils. You will need at a minimum, a jig or a
vise to hold the head. A valve spring compressor or huge C clamp to depress
the valve, and a dial indicator to let you know how far it has moved in
increments of .001" . You can't be sloppy at it or it will be all for nothing. I would suggest you buy a set of CHAMPION shaft mounted rockers. They are cheap, $28. They help eliminate friction, and at higher RPM are much more stable than the stock rockers. You are trying to go somewhere you might not be
qualified to go yet. Stay with the simple bolt on stuff for now. Build and enjoy your engine. You can always put in stiffer springs and a bigger cam later when
finances allow. If you will remember that is why I changed my first recommendation back to something you could afford. Take it one step at a time.
panchothedog
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Your stock length rod is fine. Did you order the flat top piston ? That will increase the compression ratio as much as the longer rod, or milling the head
.020" . With no CLEARANCE worries at all. The stock head gasket that comes in the engine should be .010" that is the thinnest one available and with the flat top you are getting a decent bump in compression. DO you own a inch pound
torque wrench ? You will need that to install the new rod. You will also need a
foot pound ( larger ) torque wrench to properly reassemble the rest of the engine. You have spent some money on parts, DON'T Mickey mouse it by trying to guess how tight is tight enough, or worse yet getting things too tight.
.020" . With no CLEARANCE worries at all. The stock head gasket that comes in the engine should be .010" that is the thinnest one available and with the flat top you are getting a decent bump in compression. DO you own a inch pound
torque wrench ? You will need that to install the new rod. You will also need a
foot pound ( larger ) torque wrench to properly reassemble the rest of the engine. You have spent some money on parts, DON'T Mickey mouse it by trying to guess how tight is tight enough, or worse yet getting things too tight.
Kartin’ kid
Active member
Yes I got the flat top. No I don’t have an inch or foot pound torque wrench but I’ll be getting those plus a cordless impact pretty soon courtesy of my grandmother. I would never half a$$ it even if it means waiting until I have money for the right tools
Denny
Canned Monster
When I build an engine I also check for quench, deck height, and piston to head and valve clearance.
madprofessor
"Loose Cannon Creations"
????????? I know you can't be saying that the engine comes stock OEM with the thinnest head gasket anyone uses, just a typo or grammatical kathuupttttt............ Here's a link that shows stock OEM Predator head gaskets, .045" thick, and only improved by using stainless steel on them.
Predator 212 cc Hem OEM Head Gaskets Gaskets (3 Pack) | eBay
panchothedog
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Hey Mad
Not to start a Rukas, BUT of the four brand new Predator 212 engines I have purchased every one of them has had a .010" black steel head gasket. They are all non hemi with the dished piston. Two were bought in 2020 from the local Harbor Freight store in Vista California, the other two were purchased in 2021
at the Harbor Freight store in Oceanside California. I don't even run the engines
before I pull them apart and start modifying them as it is nice to work on stuff when it is new and nice and clean. Like most OLD coots, myself included, I save everything that is useable. When I reassemble the engines I always use the .045" thick gasket with the fire ring because they all have had the head milled and have the flat top piston installed. So those are advertised as the best
sealing gasket available. The first thing I did before writing this post was to go out into my garage and measure the stock gasket that came out of the engine.
I still have 3 of them. They ALL measured .010" .
Not to start a Rukas, BUT of the four brand new Predator 212 engines I have purchased every one of them has had a .010" black steel head gasket. They are all non hemi with the dished piston. Two were bought in 2020 from the local Harbor Freight store in Vista California, the other two were purchased in 2021
at the Harbor Freight store in Oceanside California. I don't even run the engines
before I pull them apart and start modifying them as it is nice to work on stuff when it is new and nice and clean. Like most OLD coots, myself included, I save everything that is useable. When I reassemble the engines I always use the .045" thick gasket with the fire ring because they all have had the head milled and have the flat top piston installed. So those are advertised as the best
sealing gasket available. The first thing I did before writing this post was to go out into my garage and measure the stock gasket that came out of the engine.
I still have 3 of them. They ALL measured .010" .
Hey panch.......it's spelled ruckas, and no you didn't start one. Most of the world has hemi's available, so I don't think they follow the non-hemis much. It appears that here in the golden state we only have non-hemis available. So that's the motor that we're most familiar with.
which I believe makes us significantly smarter than those hillbillies and okies we deal with !
which I believe makes us significantly smarter than those hillbillies and okies we deal with !
panchothedog
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Hey Flash, You said it, not me. I have tinkered with cars and engines since my early teenage years, 60 +. Never thought I'd be inducted into such a cultural
devide based solely on hemi head vs wedge head. And I used to think that the
small block vs big block or even the Rat vs the Elephant camps had different views on making Horse Power. And all of this over single cylinder lawn mower engines. LOVEN IT.
devide based solely on hemi head vs wedge head. And I used to think that the
small block vs big block or even the Rat vs the Elephant camps had different views on making Horse Power. And all of this over single cylinder lawn mower engines. LOVEN IT.
madprofessor
"Loose Cannon Creations"
OOPS! Got in a hurry there. I posted a link to head gaskets that are indeed stock thickness of .045", but they're for the hemi 212's I'm used to, while I was unaware that non-hemi's were different. Didn't matter at all to me, as the descriptions in the link state clearly that they're stock OEM head gaskets for hemi's.
As I just stated, OOPS! I was clearly not taking my time to see that the blue link name I posted above DOES NOT specify hemi engines. I didn't notice, only had read the descriptions on the actual web page. Sorry, y'all.
...........and thanks for the new (at least to me) knowledge about non-hemi head gaskets.
Denny
Canned Monster
Everyone knows the Rat is faster on gas. But the Elephant is way faster on fuel!
I got a hemi stage one and it's good for me if I want more power I will get a bigger motor I see these guys drop a grand + on aftermarket parts to gain extra power I'm not dropping that much cash on a lawnmower engine if I were you take that $400 and buy a predetor 420 or something similar install a stage 1 kit nothing fancy no bling and smoke those other dummies
Kartin’ kid
Active member
Well said
Kartin’ kid
Active member
Hey y’all. I’ve been trying to remove the stock flywheel from the engine for the past day or so. I’ve tried every method I found and it just won’t budge. Any thoughts?
madprofessor
"Loose Cannon Creations"
More than one way to skin that cat, but whichever you choose, it's always easier with a friend helping. Someone to pry out on the flywheel while you smack on the backed-out flywheel nut is easier than tying the motor down to do it alone, and someone prying outward at the same time as smacking the nut in the opposite direction just makes it come loose easier. Here's a link to do it alone.
Flywheel Removal and Advanced Timing Key Install on a Predator 212cc - YouTube
Flywheel Removal and Advanced Timing Key Install on a Predator 212cc - YouTube
Kartin’ kid
Active member
Tried that, didn’t work. Thanks all the same
Denny
Canned Monster
Cutting torch, can’t be stuck if it’s liquid!
Kartin’ kid
Active member
Ha!