Moosemobile- Two seater kart

[moose]

I was inspired by the two seater kart concept on the front page, so I built one of my own!

Specs:

Frame: 1020 steel CREW 1.25x0.065 square tubing

Engine: Power Fist 6.5hp honda clone, govener removed

Driveline: Hilliard extreme clutch 12T, rear 1" live axle with 72T sprocket

Seats: From a Volvo V70 Station wagon

I will post more information as I do more work... currently 2 weekends into it.











-Moose
(Ottawa, Canada)

 

[moose]

More photos... Weekend 2- Seats and controls

 

[landuse]

Nice so far! Have you worked any geometry into your steering at all?

 

[moose]

Only at the spindles. (105deg steering, 10deg castor, 7deg camber)

I made my own "rod ends" by welding a nut to a bolt and a bolt to the tierod, so I have toe adjustment. Started with toe in, and have some visible anti-ackerman, which is OK (i think?), because I am lifting the inside wheel at even the slightest corner.

Next time i am working on it, I intend to experiment with toe-out, and different holes on the pitman arm.

 

[moose]

Another weekend working on the kart

Okay, so last post got deleted, so here we go again.

This past weekend saw a little more progress on the kart, and lots of driving.





Got sheet metal for floor and 'firewall' and added arm rests.

 

[moose]

I am using a princessauto Powerfist welder, 110v, running solid wire (0.030") and 75/25 "blueshield" gas.

Blew through a couple spots near the edges, so I will have to touch those spots up later.

 

[moose]

 

[moose]

Its driving well, but the steering is not stiff enough. I foolishly used some some flat stock for tie rods, so I took the time and drew up something more substantial. I had some of the parts, and plan to pick up some 5/8" tubing to make the tie rods from.

 

[TheFauxFox]

Funny thing...I saw those seats before I saw what they were and I thought "hmm... those look like they're out of a Volvo!" and sure enough... xD

 

[landuse]

It looks good. How easy is it to handle with that steering wheel though? It looks like it could be hard with it being a solid circle like that

 

[moose]

The wheel isn't ideal... The original thought was to cut the disc to have spokes, then sand and laquer the wheel. Laziness has prevailed though.

I was thinking of taking a steering wheel from the local Upull, but not sure what car I want it from.

As far as buying one-
I'm not sure what the other Canadians on this site do, but shipping anything from USA is a major PITA and makes everything too expensive.

 

[jroberts]

Awesome cart and I agree with the shipping... though sometimes you just have to

 

[moose]

Opinion on steering setup

So I am back at it for another weekend- this time with a focus on steering.

I previously posted a screencap of a rough design for updating the steering. The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that it will be unsymmetrical (and awkward) because of.... well, un-symmetry. Sooo... my question is: What should I do??

Here is my second concept "rendering" I made in paint.


Connecting link from one steering bracket to the other, then one from the driver side wheel to the pitman triangle.

My tie rods will be 3/4"OD tube with 5/8" inserts that will be welded in, and are tapped 5/16-24 for some rod-ends I had lying around. They are all right handed threads, but thats ok because its a b***h to find LH taps anyway. I will be using the same 3/4" tube for a steering column, and made some bearing blocks to support it. Will try to make a removable steering wheel hub that uses a shear pin so it can still be taken apart.

Need to get all my advice now, because no Internets at the cottage.

 

[firemanjim]

Flip the spindles, and that will give you the geometry you need(close anyway) ..... With them in the front, it's gonna steer not so good.......

 

[OzFab]

Have a look at this thread; if you still have questions, let us know...

 

[moose]

Found some internet

Thank you both for pointing that out, but yeah, I drew it backwards in paint. I did the maths, and 107 deg plus change was the angle. I rounded that to 105 and focused on trying to get each side even/symmetric.



Last night I managed to cut all the old steering off, and got new spindle brackets tacked on, working on cutting the tie rod to length. Also started working on the steering column, which will be a combination of 3/4" tubing and 5/8" round stock.

I was hoping for input on whether I should use a tie rod to each wheel from the pitman arm, or a connection between the wheels, and one tie rod to the driver wheel (like i drew). Hope this works out the way i want...

 

[Poboy kartman]

To be honest. ...I have no idea. ....the kart in my avatar was built by my father @ 1960....shortly before his tragic accidental death....and is set up pretty much like what you are planning. ...been a LONG LONG time since I was behind the wheel....but I don't remember any steering issues....

However. ...I don't know of any production karts that are set up that way. .... (perhaps there's a reason)....logically. ...I would think either way would be the same. ...mechanically. ..but I guess I could be missing something. ...

 

[OzFab]

Looking at what you have in the pic, it won't work...

To achieve proper ackermann... you know what, maybe you should read this thread too...

In short, the steering arms on the spindles should point in if they point back & out if they point forward; using a triangle pitman arm works but, you need to make sure your measurements are exact: Here's a tip: It's better to have too much angle than not enough...

As for the single tierod question: you can only use a single, solid tierod if it has the ability to slide in the pitman arm (on the steering shaft/column), which I don't advise; To use a solid tierod, you also need a drag link, as seen in poboys pic...

However, if using a triangle pitman arm, they need to be separate because they each have different mounting points...

 

[moose]

What you see in the photo is a mock-up with a solid tie rod across the updated steering brackets. Those brackets are angled 105 from the axle so that if you extended a line from each, they would intersect ~ center of rear axle. Photo may not give justice... they are also angled 45 from the horizontal so they clear the frame bars and sit an inch or two from the floor of the kart.

I didn't take any pictures yet, but I have it all together now, and its working well. What I did was weld a bracket to the solid tie rod, in the center, and have a link from the pitman to that. I am very happy with the minimal play between all the links... seems rock solid... long live the nylock!

I tried to use a setup like Poboys, but I found it did not steer evenly. It gave a more extreme left turn than right. Also the 'draglink' was binding in its bracket. I had to experiment with about 10 different setups and tie rod lengths before I found one that worked well.

I will update with pics soon. Its raining today, so I might start getting ready to paint it.

 

[moose]

Okay, so here are pics of progress.

Steering feels great, and to answer before you even ask, YES IT DOES DONUTS.




I know a lot of people have this brake setup, what does everyone else do for a return spring? At first, I only had one at the pedal, however I found that there was no feel to the pedal, and it didnt spring back, so I always worried about dragging brakes. I added this, and it feels much better.