Mini Chopper Fuel Efficiency Experiment

[mhan]

Well, it seems fitting to try something like this at this time in the U.S's economy. With gas prices so insanely high i would like to try something. First you should visit http://hhowater4gas.com. Some of you may be familiar with the process of electrolysis-using electricity to seperate the two hydrogen molecules from the oxygen molecule in gas form (HHO). At this website they have claims of doubling their car mileage by feeding this tube of gas HHO into their air intake. They claim that the hydrogen burns so hot that it ignites all of the gas in the chamber which leads to better performance and cleaner exhaust. The oxygen from the HHO increases the gas's octane level and also helps boost performance. I've recently listened to their show on Coast to Coast am and found out about this technology which is apparently 90 years old. Well this would be awesome in a car but i think that i would like to try it out on some thing that is on a smaller scale first...and that's where the mini choppers come in.

Well with that little intro some of you may be familiar with the mini chopper 50cc I'm building and I have a couple of questions you might be able to answer, keep in mind i'm new to the whole DIY go karts and mini bikes thing.


is this where the air inlet is?



I'll most likely have questions on random things farther down the line and I'll update and tell you guys how the project is going.

Opinions are welcome.

 

[ed1380]

air inlet is around the black plastic box northeast of the arrow

 

[mhan]

is the black tube the fuel overflow?

 

[ed1380]

something is making me think thats a slide carburator and thats where the throttle cable goes in

 

[mhan]

hmmm... I'm under the impression that the throttle goes into the cable that is dangling to the left of the picture?

 

[crazycart]

Nope,that thing on the left is for a shut off switch,its a wire.Your throttle cable fits into that black "tube" on the carb,it is a roundslide carb.Your going to need a specific type of cable(look on ebay) for that carb.

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

You wanna dump it in the air filter box.

 

[SloS13]

I don't know everything about everything but how would brown's gas INCREASE octane?

If it burns that hot, wouldnt any higher "octane" be seriously negated by the amount of heat in the combustion camber?

That's like saying 'here, try this cupcake, it's trans-fat free but contains arsenic'

You could potentially get more MPG by combusting that gas but if it burns extremely hot, it won't bee good for the piston or head gasket.

From what I've read, it takes more energy to do the electrolysis than you'll get from combusting it.

I would recommend logging the EGT's lest you melt something by running too much of a hydrogen/fuel ratio.

 

[mhan]

"You could potentially get more MPG by combusting that gas but if it burns extremely hot, it won't bee good for the piston or head gasket."

^ I have been considering that..

As for the amount of energy it takes to use electrolysis

Thats why this is a great additive to a car, because it runs of of the the 12 volt DC power supply.
It relatively isn't high amount of electricity. That is a popular misconception though.

I would have to have batteries for the electrolysis, so i don't know how practical this would be for a mini chopper.

The octane level is how much oxygen atoms make up the gasoline molecule, and when more oxygen is added than normal, more oxygen bonds with the gasoline molecule increasing the octane.

what does logging EGT'S mean?

 

[mhan]

Does anyone know what kind of special throttle cable would need to be used for this engine? ..what would i search for on eBay?

 

[crazycart]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Throttle-Cable-for-Dirt-Bike-Super-Bike-Pocket-Bike_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10066QQihZ012QQitemZ220233560066QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
This cable *might* work.It depends on how long you need the cable also since its a custom application.

 

[redcali]

i doubt many people on here are even using the highest already available octane fuel, so if you want to increase octane levels buy the higher octane fuel to begin with.

and as if the US has any "Insanly" high fuel prices

 

[newrider3]

Octane doesn't increase power, it resists detonation (knocking). The only reason that you need higher octane is if you have a higher compression engine, otherwise you'll make less power and be less fuel efficient.

 

[SloS13]

As for the amount of energy it takes to use electrolysis

Thats why this is a great additive to a car, because it runs of of the the 12 volt DC power supply.
It relatively isn't high amount of electricity. That is a popular misconception though.


....
what does logging EGT'S mean?

EGT's are exhaust gas temperature.
logging = keeping track of electronically

How is the amount of electricity required for viable electrolysis a misconception? I've built an electrolysis machine and wasn't blown away with the results. The amount of power you get from the hydrogen and oxygen wouldnt be more than you would get from an electric motor using the same amount of electricity. It would be like using a propane torch to keep a candle lit.

 

[mhan]

this electrolysis isn't reasonable or efficient for a mini bike.

i figured this out.

the HHO when used in a car is only a supplement to help get the full amount of power possible from the gasoline you are using.

 

[kibble]

Ok, I've got the solution; Get two tanks, one of hydrogen and one of oxygen. Route some hoses to the input of the carb, one from each tank. Turn on the engine, turn on the gas and VOILA!!! :Angel_anim:

 

[SloS13]

I know that oxygen burns extremely hot. Not sure about hydrogen. My guess is it would be better to combust the hydrogen alone and forget about the oxygen but I could be wrong on that.

 

[kibble]

I was just joking, don't go and do what I said! Hydrogen and oxygen reactions are extremely explosive. That's why I put the angel at the end, as in you'd probably blow yourself up.

 

[modelengineer]

First let me preface this by wishing you good luck with your experiment.

I know that oxygen burns extremely hot. Not sure about hydrogen. My guess is it would be better to combust the hydrogen alone and forget about the oxygen but I could be wrong on that.

Oxygen doesnt burn extremely hot, it just makes other things burn. Without a source of oxygen combustion CANNOT occur, so burning hydrogen without oxygen... isn't possible.
IF you add pure oxygen to a combustion reaction which is occuring in air (~21% oxygen), then yes it will burn hotter.

Prolly should do a bit more research on the subject before messing around with hydrogen and oxygen, can be very dangerous.