made a serious extension cord

[supermanotorious]

well no sooner than I move in to the new house with plans to build a full scale shop between now and August, I have 2 insanely custom winch orders looming, one that's never been done before and one that has been done at least once, with a massive engine for a wakeboard winch

I installed my 220V welding outlet just below the breaker box but it's on the opposite end of the house from the garage where I'll be building these 2 winches

so I ordered 75' of 6/3 from HERE and it showed up tonight, talk about a very heavy cable and I'm not sure where I'll store it

I was able to throw down a few test beads, we're operational!

 

[mckutzy]

Thats pretty cool...
A number of years ago I had got a big cable made up like that... I have a box wired for 2-120vac lines with additional 15a breakers by splitting a 30a 220vac dryer plugin.
I dont need a long 220 cable but can use the full 30(actually 15a) for my 120v welder without the breaker tripping from any used receptical on the wall.... The inrush typically trips the breakers when I strike an arc... Now not no more....

Good to see you got things on the go after the move...

 

[anickode]

Nice.

Overkill for that machine by a long shot, but it will be more versatile if you buy a bigger machine in the future.

Cords can be sized based on the max draw of the machine, and derated for the duty cycle. In reality, you could probably use 12ga for that welder (I'd have to look up the draw and duty cycle), and 10ga would be plenty.

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

Nothing as useful as a 100lb extension cord.

 

[itsid]

Uhh 75' ??

You are aware that you never should draw any serious power through that cable when it's
(even partially) coiled up, right?

So personally.. I'd "install" that cable just to be sure it's not a tripping hazard while in use
and make a permanent dedicated 220V line in the garage with it.

'sid

 

[anickode]

Uhh 75' ??

You are aware that you never should draw any serious power through that cable when it's
(even partially) coiled up, right?

So personally.. I'd "install" that cable just to be sure it's not a tripping hazard while in use
and make a permanent dedicated 220V line in the garage with it.

'sid

That's not allowed. Portable cord is not for permanent installation.

My guess is there's no practical way to do a permanent installation. At least not quickly or cheaply.

 

[TT540]

It could serve as a backup whole home generator supply some day. Thanks for the link to the supplier. Or, add some ends and sell it to an RV/camper person.

 

[Nosandwich]

Thats pretty cool...
A number of years ago I had got a big cable made up like that... I have a box wired for 2-120vac lines with additional 15a breakers by splitting a 30a 220vac dryer plugin.
I dont need a long 220 cable but can use the full 30(actually 15a) for my 120v welder without the breaker tripping from any used receptical on the wall.... The inrush typically trips the breakers when I strike an arc... Now not no more....

Good to see you got things on the go after the move...

I made up some of those for my carpentry work, and split them up into 110 v. outlets. Then they added a ground breaker to the electric temporary, and ( much like a GFCI), it wouldn't work with the new breakers.

 

[mckutzy]

I forget what type I had used... I know there is stab lock and one other type... It has a terminal to wire(attach) to the bus.. I used that type so I could just use romex wires to attach it to the cable.

 

[itsid]

That's not allowed. Portable cord is not for permanent installation.

My guess is there's no practical way to do a permanent installation. At least not quickly or cheaply.

behind the wall for sure not...
having it pulled straight under the floor though (crawlspace and such)
or tucked away neatly (but largely uncovered) should not be illegal at all

IIRC as long as it has a plug at the receiving end, it could even be in
some cable cord channel and it'll still be considered "non permanent"
(IDK your local rules of course, I barely know my local laws about it tbh... sooo better check twice)

the thing is, wrapping it back up will work harden the copper, break a strand or two (or a couple of dozen over the course of some years to come)
and it'll be weaker than expected, heat up much quicker than expected.. in the worst possible location (under the rug in the hall way for example)
since you don't want it to be a tripping hazard, right?

coiled up, it's a massive selfinductor when connected to a power hungry appliance (I'd say a welder is such thing, wouldn't you agree?).

it'd be too bad to accidentally burn down the new house with it,
that's all I'm saying.

'sid

 

[anickode]

behind the wall for sure not...
having it pulled straight under the floor though (crawlspace and such)
or tucked away neatly (but largely uncovered) should not be illegal at all

IIRC as long as it has a plug at the receiving end, it could even be in
some cable cord channel and it'll still be considered "non permanent"
(IDK your local rules of course, I barely know my local laws about it tbh... sooo better check twice)

the thing is, wrapping it back up will work harden the copper, break a strand or two (or a couple of dozen over the course of some years to come)
and it'll be weaker than expected, heat up much quicker than expected.. in the worst possible location (under the rug in the hall way for example)
since you don't want it to be a tripping hazard, right?

coiled up, it's a massive selfinductor when connected to a power hungry appliance (I'd say a welder is such thing, wouldn't you agree?).

it'd be too bad to accidentally burn down the new house with it,
that's all I'm saying.

'sid

With AC power, the induction really cancels itself out due to the 2 legs of the cord being opposite phases. That's why a clamp meter doesn't work around a whole cable.

 

[itsid]

With AC power, the induction really cancels itself out due to the 2 legs of the cord being opposite phases.

BS!!

But don't take my word for it...try it!
coil up any power cable you have (hair dryer is nice for that) take a compass needle and see if it's afected
Also.. if you have any prefabbed extension cord, take a close look at the warning label..
you'll surely find a sentence like:
"AVOID OVERHEATING: uncoil cord!"


But sure, a perfect coil would just create a magnetic field, not much else, it's the likely perpendicular running 'loose end' that should have you worried or the "imperfection" in such loosely wrapped up power cord.

'sid

PS Also fun... hook up an extension reel, pump some amps through (well below it's limits)
feel if it got warm after a couple of minutes.. [they do get quite toasty in short order only half way up their power rating]

 

[supermanotorious]

this escalated quickly LOL

so yeah I considered a 6/3 Romex for a hard install but that had a couple drawbacks- I'd have to buy more than I'd need and ultimately (hopefully soon) I'll be moving the whole operation to a detached workshop running off a subpanel so I did not want an expensive, unused 220V outlet left in the garage

now, to weld in the garage with this cord, it has to be stretched all the way out so coiling is not an issue

as for the generator backfeeding the whole house, I've been known to do that during power outages and yes, now I have a much longer, heavier cord to so, plus I have a dedicated generator to house adapter on standby for those needs

prior to this cord I was using a ~25' 3/10 extension cord which I still have and could extend this 75' cord with if need be and yes, that would be for a rare circumstance in which both cords would be uncoiled

so the coil issue in my garage is simply what to do with it when not in use, for now it's coiled up on the garage floor, as I look around the garage there is not a great place to hang it

 

[mckutzy]

I looked around on the Pinterest and such... Seen some ideas where people take an old dolly, mount the power box to it and have a cord reel attached aswell...
Keeps the cord contained and for ease of transport...
Others I've seen are just a piece of ply wood with a hole cut out for a handle and a mount for a cord to wrap around. Some also like that have skateboard wheels attached to it to wheel around.. Kinda like a golf bag kart...

 

[TT540]

Pulling current through a coiled up AC cable is a bad thing. It wont kill you, but will heat up the cable more so and that heat cannot get out as per the rating on that cables jacket/sheathing. After several cycles, it wont want to unwind as easily. If you ever see a cable that looks like it was wound up and put in a oven, that's the end result. Again, not the end of the world. It's like parking your kart outside. It won't kill it, but it won't last as long either. and we all park are stuff inside, right?!

But you have some nice stuff there. not cheapo Chinese junk. don't sweat it. Carolprene goes up to almost 200*F. you can lay that stuff on a car engine and do work!

 

[itsid]

so the coil issue in my garage is simply what to do with it when not in use, for now it's coiled up on the garage floor, as I look around the garage there is not a great place to hang it

Sorry, is the winch guy asking how to store a few feet of wire'y stuff?
Is it odd to think of a reel of sorts?

And may I ask why it would have to be stored in the garage at all?
I mean you must connect it to the breaker box anyways, why not store it there?
Done working disconnect welder,
rewind the reel back to the breaker box, disconnect, put it on the floor.. done!
Need power again, pick up reel, connect, unwind reel to garage put down, connect welder, work...

*headscratch*

frankly I see no point in doing it the other way around *shrugs*

'sid

 

[supermanotorious]

the 220v outlet is outside of the house, i guess i could mount something on the wall and hang it there but it will get a.m. sun and would be exposed for neighbors and passerbys to see, i'd hate to find it missing

 

[itsid]

oh.. okay.. hadn't expected an outside outlet

'sid

 

[tinamcjittles]

Just punch a hole in the wall and tap into the outlet's lines lolz.. Why don't the phases cancel out? If the phase shift is a full 180 then the fields would cancel but I'm guessing its more like 120 or 90 degrees? These answers say it isn't inductance related but rather a heat soak issue (I'm not trying to start an argument, just curious.) "Unless you wired your equipment with single wires it would not be possible to create an air-cored inductor as shown in Figure 1.

Because your cables contain the feed and return current in very close proximity the inductance caused by the current to the load is exactly cancelled out by the current returning from the load.

The danger is that if they are carrying significant current (for the gauge of wire) they will get warm or hot. This may cause insulation breakdown or even fire. "

That is funny though Sid, just make a winch to winch your cable used to weld winches.
Sorry this got off topic fast..

 

[supermanotorious]

Sid is one of my bros, he knows the things I create and or fix, so it's no surprise to me, he is surprised I cant think of a simple solution to this issue

to elaborate, the old house went live on the market this past Friday, if I get the asking price there is enough equity to buy a <2,000 sq ft steel building on our new land and all of my tools will be moved there, the garage is a temporary workstation as I have orders placed and must meet deadlines, and for now, that big ol' cable is coiled on the garage floor and we found out during the closing period, my truck doesn't fit in there, that should tell you it's not the biggest/deepest garage out ther