Longest Lasting Clutch for high miles!

[modelengineer]

Remember that more slip generally means more wear, and hence less life.

 

[robin]

what about the wet clutches on racing carts ?

 

[ZnsaneRyder]

Remember that more slip generally means more wear, and hence less life.

I'm well aware of that. I want a medium between slip and grip, like the tunable racing clutches do.

I keep the bushing lubed, and have extras, and the hiliards hardly wear the shoes or drum at all! The drum has noticeable wear after 6 months, and several thousand miles, but still seems good.

In this application, I need some slip to reduce the force of the shock from hard catching. I lube my clutch with WD-40 to help some, and it accelerates, and locks up smoothly, but when I run dry and don't have the WD-40 handy, and have hard engagement at medium speed, that's when the problems happen.

What happens from hard catching, is the hub hammers the shoes where they fit on the hub, and the metal flattens out from the hammering, and wears away. That's the ONLY issue I'm having with the hilliards. If you overheat the clutch, you just lube the bushing, and it's good as new, or replace the bushing if it's really bad. I can smoke the clutch and get it super hot and it handles it great, but it's when the clutch is cool and the shoes catch too hard for too long, is what breaks the clutch.

*Also I found out I have the oil-treated shoes because I have a tractor-supply version. I'm wondering if the standard shoes are stronger. They are a darker colored steel than the shoes I have, which are silver.

 

[ZnsaneRyder]

what about the wet clutches on racing carts ?

A wet clutch? Do they engage smoother without locking up so fast? If they are cost-effective, that may be a very viable option. What wet clutch would you recommend?

I'd love to use a TAV, but I simply do not have the space for it to fit.

 

[ZnsaneRyder]

Here's a thought, check the racing gokart supply houses for what the racers use. I have a friend who races gokarts with his son and he gives me his old clutch parts when they swap for new. His clutches look similar to the fancy comet in the picture a few posts back, except they use a needle bearing on the crank instead of a bushing. The housings are twice as thick and can take some serious heat. They stand up to the power of modified animal engines on alcohol pretty good, and when I use them half worn out, they are twice as good as a new maxtorque. I think he buys from Kartworld or something like that.

edit - I emailed my buddy: "We use the Premier Stinger. Noram also makes one that is very similar. They are now both owned by same company and are interchangeable. American Powersports has the Noram one. About $75. "

Hope that helps.

Thanks, it does, and I'm still considering one of those clutches in the future. How does your Noram GE clutch drive for you? I know you are making a bike trailer on the MB forum, so clutch life and driveability is important to you as well for reliable traveling.

I notice how you can change the shoe position on the Noram/Comet to have a fast grab, or a nice easy grab. Also, the springs are widely available and are cheaper than the hilliard springs.

 

[Russell ATV]

Stop putting WD-40 on your clutch. WD-40 is a penetrant, and a poor lubricant. If I need to clean the grease off a part, unstick a metal to metal fitting, or remove sticker residue, use WD-40. It was originally made to keep military items from rusting (water displacement), but is a great cleaner to boot.

You may be scrubbing the oil out of the bronze Oilite. The best solution would be gear oil or even motor oil (soaking). A silicon spray would be a better alternative to the WD-40 if you need something on the road. Teflon is the best (but crazy pricing).

WD-40 is an amazing substance, but it is definitely not a good lubricate.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

 

[BradenM]

In my experience, I would have to agree-how many people substitute it for a proper bicycle, wax or silicon based chain lubricant?

(I'm a bicycle mechanic).

 

[ZnsaneRyder]

A silicon spray would be a better alternative to the WD-40 if you need something on the road. Teflon is the best (but crazy pricing).

WD-40 is an amazing substance, but it is definitely not a good lubricate.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

Thanks. Would the silicone spray perform well under high heat? If I could lube the bushing less often because it lasts, that would be great.

As far as the clutch friction surface, I wonder how well it would work there too. I still want it to fully lock up and not have excessive slip, so I'd spray trace amounts as needed.

After some experimenting............
*I tried LUCAS for the clutch. Works great so far. I use a very SMALL amount. It works great for the friction surface, I first apply some, then I run it real hard, and after I get the clutch HOT from slipping, and it glazes the shoes & drum nice and smooth, I then wipe it all out so it don't slip, and the engagement is much smoother, and still locks up.

So far so good.

 

[BradenM]

^^ A pioneer.

 

[rgvkid]

So your saying that you apply the Lucas, then you have to remove the drum to clean it out? Is that alot of work and how often do you have to do this? When you say a small amount, do you mean like a few drops? I would think a few drops would do it. I use this stuff in my ranger truck that someone tipped me on a long time back, I'll have to get the name but is called Miracle something and it comes in a red bottle. I'll try it when i get mine going because i know Lucas is pretty pricey and they sell the Miracle stuff at auto zone and my truck has about 275k miles on it with no crank problems.

 

[Russell ATV]

For high temp, I would just get a quart of synthetic motor oil. Good temp handling and proven friction reducing results. I have not checked to see what temp the Silicon spray will go to, but you could look at the directions when at Wal-mart or hardware store. I use the silicon spray on roller chains and it works well.

Remember the main bushings are Oilites and they were designed around a petroleam based oil. They basically boil the porrous bronze in the oil and then let it cool. This really penetrates the thickness of the bushing. Squirting or dripping something between the bushing and the hub will create a good low friction environment, but 99.8% will likely get lost in centrifugal forces or squezzed out.

Best thing to do would be to service the bushing periodically by letting it soak in oil. Heat the oil (even in the Microwave for minute) will help even more.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

 

[ZnsaneRyder]

So your saying that you apply the Lucas, then you have to remove the drum to clean it out? Is that alot of work and how often do you have to do this? When you say a small amount, do you mean like a few drops?

The Red Marvin's oil may be too thin, but I'll try it and see.

I Just couple drops worth of the Lucas, but I use a Q-tip to apply, because it's almost as thick as grease. There's also this Generic-Brand Lucas called Bardahl's No-Smoke I'm using now, and it works great, and is less than $3 at Wal-Mart. It slips less than Motor-Oil would because it's very thick and sticky, and doesn't get burned up, or slung out. When you wipe the excess out, it still remains a little bit in the clutch, just enough to keep it from grabbing too hard.

We also used it in the bushing, but the motor oil and spray lube works better on a badly worn bushing. I may try the red Marvin's Mystery oil on my new clutch and bushing, and see if it's any different.

Done that no-smoke stuff on my brother's brand-new clutch on 2.5 as well, and so far, so good. It only has minimal slip, meaning it slips at first, and fully locks up once up to speed. It seems to help even MORE on the little 2.5 than the 6.5, because the 2.5 is small, and the slight lubrication allows just enough slip to pull nicely from the start without suddenly catching and bogging down the engine. It also makes the clutch quieter. It seems like the 2.5 is much easier on the clutch, and doesn't have enough HP to get it very hot at all.

The hilliard clutches are easy to remove from the engine shaft, so it's just really dirty, but not a lot of work at all.

 

[ZnsaneRyder]

Best thing to do would be to service the bushing periodically by letting it soak in oil. Heat the oil (even in the Microwave for minute) will help even more.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

That's a great idea! I'm going to treat a bushing like that!