Lifan 6.5HP 196cc Engine Build (1st Timer)

[BrownStainRacing]

My crankshaft is 3/4"

For the sprocket to axle gear offset I did the following:
-moved engine as close to tire as possible
-installed clutch spacer on crankshaft
-installed clutch backwards onto crankshaft (sprocket toward engine)
-placed a straight edge along both the sprocket and gear
-measured the space between the straight edges

Including the gear and sprocket thickness I have an offset of 1 1/8". Without the gearing thickness included I think I'd be around 7/8", but I will measure the gears and subtract that from the 1 1/8 later. I don't see any listed adjustment/movement specs for that OMBW engine swap kit "plate". I would think it would work fine but I see it says "this side up" and "front" on it. Any idea why? Seems like it would have more adjustment options if the plate could be flipped upside down or front to back. I'm concerned they only expect the engine to be moved to the right (if seated) while it seems I need to move mine toward the left (if seated). And I'm a bit concerned that moving the engine to the left about an inch will bring the TC drive/crank pulley too close to the tire. I may just have to Amazon a TC and see if it'll fit with the engine moved over in order to get the chain lined up. If not, send it back and likely be stuck with the engine plate.

I also found good 196 vs 212 vs 224cc info in the ARC website blogs. Still not certain what gives a 224 more displacement than a 212 though.

The best way to find this measurement:

Place engine on the engine plate.

Bolt it down with at least 2 bolts & nuts, dont have to be tight, jus straight.

Put the factory spacers, washers, shims on the crank, whatever it came with when clutch was outboard and lined with axle sprocket.

Place clutch on, inboard.

Measure center of teeth on clutch, to center of teeth on axle sprocket.

This # will be our goal.

I looked closer at the adapter plate. Flipped 1 way will get more movement to the left. Flipped over, will get more movement to the right.

These are being used on small frame mini bikes, that came with 97cc engines from the factory.
When people swap to a clone style engine (120cc-263cc) which is much wider then the small 97cc, the engine has to be moved to the right so the chain lines up with the sprocket.

On the mini bike forums, they are bolting the adapter to the engine, placing it on the engine plate, marking for 4 new mounting holes on the engine plate, not for sliding or adjusting, jus straight holes to keep the engine straight. Then using the adapter plate for left - right movement, to line up chain, and front- back movement, to keep chain tight.

It sure looks like you have the room, without drilling new holes.
Again, I'm not sure how far that adapter will allow, for the movement you will need.

But, 4 new straight holes is no big job, jus make sure to keep the engine straight before drilling.
A crooked chain won't stay on, and wears out sprockets and chains.

I can get you a measurement from t/c back plate to end of jackshaft, if you are concerned about the driven (big pulley) hitting the tire.

Jus incase you was wondering

Heres a pic of launching a bone stock 196 with clutch, jackshaft, 10:1 gear, and 19" tire.
Look closely, it's almost not there,

 

[panchothedog]

Battboy. Have been watching your thread for a little bit and your pursuit of a bigger engine is COMPLETELY unnecessary. With a cheap ( Amazon ) 30 series torque converter your kart will run through tall grass, and accelerate like it has twice the horsepower. It won't be any faster on the top end but the ability to leave from a dead stop will be NIGHT and DAY difference. I can't tell you if it will fit on your kart or not just by looking at a picture. If you have any modifications needed they will be well worth the trouble. First kart I bought for my Grandchildren ( I now own 4 and a mini bike) was a large heavy two seater.
Owners manuel said it weighed 400 lbs. empty. Powered by a 196cc clone engine. The exact same thing that is on yours. Came with a 30 series torque converter, kart could climb hills, run through sand, go anywhere. A centrifugal clutch like you have is not suited for the terrain you are driving on, or for learning with stop and go situations.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Battboy. Have been watching your thread for a little bit and your pursuit of a bigger engine is COMPLETELY unnecessary. With a cheap ( Amazon ) 30 series torque converter your kart will run through tall grass, and accelerate like it has twice the horsepower. It won't be any faster on the top end but the ability to leave from a dead stop will be NIGHT and DAY difference. I can't tell you if it will fit on your kart or not just by looking at a picture. If you have any modifications needed they will be well worth the trouble. First kart I bought for my Grandchildren ( I now own 4 and a mini bike) was a large heavy two seater.
Owners manuel said it weighed 400 lbs. empty. Powered by a 196cc clone engine. The exact same thing that is on yours. Came with a 30 series torque converter, kart could climb hills, run through sand, go anywhere. A centrifugal clutch like you have is not suited for the terrain you are driving on, or for learning with stop and go situations.

Great advice!!!
The stock196 might be more then he wants, or needs, with the right set up.
Jus gotta figure out how to get that t/c to mount straight.

I was trying to talk him outta tearing into the 196, .

I wish there was more around here, but every body done went to the 212, 223, 224.

 

[Thepartsguy]

On the mini bike forums, they are bolting the adapter to the engine, placing it on the engine plate, marking for 4 new mounting holes on the engine plate, not for sliding or adjusting, jus straight holes to keep the engine straight. Then using the adapter plate for left - right movement, to line up chain, and front- back movement, to keep chain tight.

This method actually works better on gokarts with more room then smaller frame minis. I found out 60-70’s wheel horse toro engine mounts are like no engine mounts for sale I have found today. they have what I call “legs” you bolt the kohler k series through predator 420cc to the toro plate. then you drill two holes in the front “leg” of the toro mount the bolts drop through the two new holes you drilled in the front mount leg into the original gokarts 5hp engine mount front slides. then you install and tension the chain and only have to drill two new holes in the back “leg” through the original karts 5hp mount those two holes are permanent.

 

[BattBoy175]

Thanks for the advice yall. I got quite a bit done. Billet rod, lightweight flywheel, Series 30 TC, and complete gov delete. Then I found in order to move that billet mounting plate far enough to the left to align the axle and TC gears I had to also use a ~2" riser mount as well, otherwise the TC would hit the tire. Had to trim the leftside lip from the riser plate. Easy enough. So it looked like all stars were in alignment along with the gears. Last steps: bolt the head back on and install 18lb springs. Well, I told my boy to just hand tighten the 4 head bolts and I sat there watching him. Wifey comes to the garage to ask about dinner. We speak and when I turn back around my boy has a huge torque wrench on one of the head bolts, is gripping it with two hands, and is basically applying so much force that he is lifting himself off the ground. Before I could yell a 4 letter word the bolt yelled out SNAP! The last 3/4" of the bolt is stuck at the bottom of the hole. Wow.... Called that a night.

So, I spent 3 hours today with various ez-outs, grab-its, dremel bits, drill bits, etc. and I'm confident its pooched. At minimum, the bolt would need to be completely drilled through and have a heli-coil (new threads) installed. Not sure I trust myself putting new threads into a head's bolt hole. UGH!

So, its a new 196cc block for $50 or a GX200 short block for $130 or a 224cc Max for $200.
I cannot spend another $100 for a new rod. But I could swing $20 on a new piston (see ARC info below).
Which route would you take? I know its subjective question but this is my last chance to swap if I'm going to.

I see ARC (link below) says I can use my current 6720 rod IF I switch to a flat top hemi piston (and don't mind clearancing/grinding, which I don't mind). I'm not sure if swapping the piston would increase compression or piston height at TDC, over a factory 224 setup. If not, I'd probably go the 224 route. Obviously I'm not up to speed on engine designing but I can verify measurements and work calipers.

Harbor Freight Predator 224cc

A little break down and measurements of the new Predator 224cc engine. I am only going to highlight the performance parts that will work on this engine to help keep the confusion down. The 224cc engine is 70mm bore and 58mm stroke. Flywheel… this engine takes any of the current flywheels for the...

www.arcracing.com

"Connecting Rod… it has the Honda/Clone crank journal of 1.180”, but if you are using the OEM 224cc piston you will need the ARC 6773 connecting rod because of the .716” wrist pin. If you plan on switching to a Hemi Flat Top with a .709” wrist pin you can use either of the ARC 6269, 6270 or 6271 connecting rods. Block and cam clearancing may be needed."
This is the piston they are referring to, correct?

Predator 212cc Hemi Flat Top Piston Kit - Standard Bore

OMB Warehouse - Go Kart Parts and Mini Bike Parts. OEM and Aftermarket supplier of Outdoor Power Equipment Parts, Arborist and Landscape Supplies.

www.ombwarehouse.com

I agree that the 224cc is not *needed*. But I do believe in buy once, cry once! Seeing the same work is required for either engine I'd prefer to have the largest possible. I drive a fast car and have the tickets to prove it lol I have access to farmland and a bulldozer so I'm hoping to have a fun track with some long straights at some point. I can justify making that once I the gokart is proven worthy.

Thanks again!

 

[BaconBitRacing]

I can't help with this decision, but Heli-coil has proven itself to be very strong

Everyone has mistakes! He won't do it again! You have quite dynamic storytelling, ever considered being a writer?

 

[BrownStainRacing]

When you install a billet rod to the 224, you will have rod to block contact.

I had to clearance the block in 4 different spot. Had it apart and back together at least a dozen times to get .030"-.040" clearance in all contact spots.
Then the rod to aftermarket cam was another issue, so another dozen times for clearancing.
Then the compression release was hitting the counter weight on the crank. Shimmed the cam and crank to .008" and still had to clearance the compression release hold down tabs.
Had to change the crank bearing. It got crunchy from all the material i had to take out of the block. Even tho I had it filled with grease and covered every time.

It's not for the inexperienced engine builder.
That 58mm crank takes up alot of room inside the crankcase.

A better option would be to leave to governor alone.
Install a + .010" (3.313") longer stock clone rod. They are stronger then people give them credit for.
Install that stock pred 212 hemi flat top piston.
Leave the stock plastic gear cam in it. It'll make more power then you will need. It has a faster ramp profile then other stock cams.

This combo will not have all those clearance issues. Will make a very strong pulling engine.

If you think you need more from it, I doubt it.
But you could add a bigger stock style carb .640"-.675", 1.3:1 stamped steel rockers, 22# valves springs. Clean up the bowl areas in the head. And turn the governor up to 5300 rpm.

Remember, it's a stroker. It don't need to turn high rpm to make power.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

@BattBoy175
Here's a good read about all the clearance issues you will run into when going to the billet rod in the 224.

Again, don't worry about that plastic gear cam. Of coarse they want to sell you a cam, it's their business.

Clearance-ing the Predator 224 and Wildcat 58mm crankshafts

 

[Thepartsguy]

I drilled out three broken head bolts on a 12hp tecumseh no Heli coil and all three bolts torqued down fine into the new threads... no plan just a center punch and hopes that I don‘t screw it up... This is probably not an option and do not attempt if you don’t feel comfortable... but in an easier world I just drilled/tapped and sent it down the strip. never had any problem With the bolts but had major issues with the rod becoming two pieces.

 

[Thepartsguy]

Not sure why the losi xxxnt parts showed up