I know it's a beaten topic but... vertical shaft to horizontal?

[spider87]

Has anyone come up with a "great" way to do this yet? I can't afford to do a 90 degree gearbox of any sort (and have been looking and surprisingly can't find anyone willing to give up an old dead riding mower) and the oil pan is on the bottom so I won't be able to turn it... I'm thinking the belt twist method will be best but I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any other alternatives?

Also, while I'm a complete noob, I'll try to be as un-nooblike as possible.

 

[landuse]

Try looking at these threads:
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4766&highlight=vertical
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10139&highlight=vertical
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10106&highlight=vertical
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9069&highlight=vertical
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6485&highlight=vertical

There are many more threads on this subject. Just do a search using the words 'vertical conversion', or just 'vertical'.

I hope this gives you some ideas

 

[spider87]

Wow, not sure what I did when I searched but all I could find were discussions that everyone just suggested 90 degree gearboxes or something of the sort. Thanks for the help!

Though, now that I'm reading those, they all seem to either suggest RAGB or junk riding mower gearing?

 

[sideways]

I just picked up another vert shaft briggs from the tip, I can do a step by step guide on how to convert one to horizontal shaft if you would like. That other thread I made could of been a lot better...

The most annoying thing about briggs mowers is that they have a 7/8" shaft, centrifugal clutches for that size are very hard to come by, I've never a seen a torque converter that will fit, chances are if you're converting a mower engine you don't have enough money for one those anyway. I use pulley tensioner clutches so it doesn't matter to me.

Thanks

Hayden

Edit: I mean true horizontal shaft, modifying the engine oiling system so it will run on its side.

 

[spider87]

Hayden, if you could do that step by step that'd be AWESOME. And yes, I don't have money really to put in to buying parts at all haha. I've done a little bit of researching on centrifugal clutches and can't figure out where to scavenge them from so pulley tensioner clutch could be my key. Let me know if you make the step by step!

Thanks!

 

[sideways]

Hayden, if you could do that step by step that'd be AWESOME. And yes, I don't have money really to put in to buying parts at all haha. I've done a little bit of researching on centrifugal clutches and can't figure out where to scavenge them from so pulley tensioner clutch could be my key. Let me know if you make the step by step!

Thanks!

Okay, no worries mate, I should have it posted by this time next week, time permitting of course. I think that engine might have quite serious problems though.

More or less it's just, remove engine from mower, remove side cover, fabricate oil dipper that will fit, seal engine back up, sort out carby, make engine mount, run engine. All quite simple really.

If you can find a 2 stroke mower your life will be very easy, all you have to do is remount the carb and make a new engine mount.

What country are you in?

Thanks

Hayden

 

[spider87]

No hurry, my engine still has some issues. I took it apart and did the usual maintenance stuff, turned it on (assisted by ether) and it ran well for 15-20 seconds then squealed, carb opened all the way and it shut off. I'm thinking maybe it's a fuel intake issue but long story short, I'm going to need to work on it a bit more before it can be used anyway. That and it's cold outside.. (I don't like when places edit the "d" word (the one that sounds like something that blocks water) because it makes it look worse than it is.. It's like blocking the word "crap". In any case, that's what this four letter edited word is: **** these Pennsylvania winters... I'm in PA, US by the way.

 

[redsox985]

It can be done, but the RAGB is the common suggestion for someone who doesn't want to crack open the crank case and all that good stuff. Using a 2 stroke motor is an easy fix, especially because they are light and don't require much work to get up and going on a kart. For a 4 stroke vert --> horiz you will need to reorient the carb, make a new mount, and rig a new oil slinger to lube the motor. The PTO can be addressed once you get it running horizontally. Good luck!

I'm also in PA. I went to bed and it was pouring rain, I get up today and there's 2-3" of snow! Where did this come from!?

 

[Russ2251]

turned it on (assisted by ether) and it ran well for 15-20 seconds then squealed

Really.

 

[outdooz]

I have seen first hand, people who "bent the belt". Just requires 2 extra pulleys to do it. And they have no problems. Easy way to go from vertical to horizontal.

 

[The Mechtician]

...turned it on (assisted by ether) and it ran well for 15-20 seconds then squealed, carb opened all the way and it shut off. I'm thinking maybe it's a fuel intake issue...

You just described a textbook cold siezure. It usually affects 2 strokes, but if the conditions are right (read; lack of lubrication, high rpm's or load before warm, etc etc) it can happen to a 4 stroke too. The fact that you started the engine with ether probably contributed greatly to the cause. Ether is an excellent solvent and cleans the cylinder walls so well that there is no oil film left behind to lubricate the rings. Congratulations on lunching your motor! It will need a rebuild of the top end before it'll run.

 

[spider87]

Well... that sucks.... lol Wouldn't it not even turn over if it was seized ?

 

[sideways]

Well... that sucks.... lol Wouldn't it not even turn over if it was seized ?

Yeah, but yours sounds like it had a partial seizure which has the potential to really screw up your engine, I had a car that did, no damage at all (apart from blown head gasket), I think I was very lucky though.

What kinda engine is it? Model Type Code?

I'm part way through getting that mower engine apart, I'l post the guide once I've done the whole conversion.

Thanks

Hayden

 

[fowler]

a bit erelevent as u dont want RAGB but what about useing two spider gears otta a car diff

 

[sideways]

a bit erelevent as u dont want RAGB but what about useing two spider gears otta a car diff

Yeah it's possible but that's a **** load of fabricating to make something that's quite cheap.

 

[spider87]

Well, I'd love an RAGB I just don't think I can afford it. I was trying to figure out how to build something like it and I'm considering something like the spider gears you're talking about but I'm not sure how I'd mount them.

 

[fowler]

well i would put them in a box 1/2 filled with oil

i agree it would be complicated but not alot of fabrication

baically 4 bearings and some sheet metal

 

[The Mechtician]

Yeah, but yours sounds like it had a partial seizure which has the potential to really screw up your engine, I had a car that did, no damage at all (apart from blown head gasket), I think I was very lucky though.

If your engine still spins you might be ok. You may want to pop the head off & check out the cylinder walls though. I would also avoid using starting fluid (ether) in the future, it can be useful in the right application but can do damage when used improperly.

 

[spider87]

Well hopefully it's ok. I'll check it out. That's what I get for being a noob and taking advice from my brother-in-law haha...

 

[The Mechtician]

That's what I get for being a noob and taking advice from my brother-in-law haha...

It's ok, making mistakes is how we learn, at least you learned this lesson on an inexpensive engine that you don't rely on to get you around every day (like the one in your car, for example). Since you have to open the crankcase anyway to do the vertical-to-horizontal conversion, you won't be too far away from a full teardown if it does need one. FWIW, I hope it's ok and there was no damage, I'm intrigued by the whole vertical-to-horizontal conversion so I'm following this thread with great interest