How To run a engine on Methonal and Ethonal?

[Themurraykart]

I have a science fair project and I am building a Mini-bike that runs on 3 fuels. Gasoline,Ethonal, and methonal. Good news is that I have a honda clone 196cc 6.5 hp laying around that I can use. How do I do this? I have access to any tool I need. I just need to know how to do it and how much it will cost...

Thanks.

 

[Bluethunder3320]

i am not experienced with different types of fuels, but you may need to change the compression ratio. (by adding a flat top piston or head milling or whatever) not too sure about that though.

one thing i know is that you probably will need to change the jetting in the carbeurator because you need way more methanol to run the equivalent gasoline (i think)

and the last thing i think you may need to change is the timing. because those different gasses will burn at different rates.

i am not 100% about any of those... so i hope someone else will chime in here.

 

[Russ2251]

Also, alcohol is corrosive to aluminum.

 

[Bluethunder3320]

i remember that^

so you can put the gas into the engine and it might run but itll be running like crap... lol. it might be a ton of work.

 

[devino246]

Also, alcohol is corrosive to aluminum.

Interesting, didn't know that.


As Blue said, the engine needs to be set differently for the different fuels; you wont be able to randomly switch them out. Those "FlexFuel" vehicles you see detect the type of fuel and adjust the timing and a/f mixture to suit.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

That's quite a tall order. Tell me- were you assigned this task, or did you just dream it up without knowing what you'd be up against?

You might be able to get away with one jet size, and one timing setting, but if it works at all, it will likely run like crap on at least one fuel.

To find a jetting that will work for each fuel, look on Evilbay for an adjutable jet kit, I know they're out there. This way you can keep fooling around with the mixture with each fuel, and dial in the best average (if at all).

To get an "average" timing, you can remove the flywheel key. This will allow you to rotate the flywheel 360* around the crankshaft. I have heard of guys running keyless full time, but I don't know what they torque the flywheel nut to.

I hope you have a pretty forgiving timetable on this.

 

[devino246]

Getting the engine running on all three fuels is a tall order. Getting the engine to push a minibike on all three is even taller. You may want to choose ethanol (which needs to be e85) or methanol and just set it to run on that.

 

[Russ2251]

Our small engines can run on diesel fuel, fuel oil or kerosene (jet fuel?) as well (with no mods) if you know what to do.

 

[B man]

Our small engines can run on diesel fuel, fuel oil or kerosene (jet fuel?) as well (with no mods) if you know what to do.

diesel? plz tell how to do that.

 

[Russ2251]

diesel? plz tell how to do that.

A hint:
Pre-heat.
B&S did it.

 

[B man]

A hint:
Pre-heat.

the block or the fuel?

 

[B.M.800]

So... any chance we can burn some veggie oil? Without negative performance?

That would be about the coolest thing ever...

 

[Doc Sprocket]

If it'll run on diesel, it'll run on veggie oil (methinks). That said, I believe there's a minimum temperature for the oil. I did some research on biofuel awhile back, and the conversion systems that used straight veg had tank and line heaters.

 

[B.M.800]

So in other words, without preheating the fuel... it wouldnt work out too well... ?

even like, the extremely filtered stuff?

 

[B man]

maybe. but i wouldnt be that hard to heat the fuel.

 

[landuse]

Just think....you would have the wonderfull smell of cooking when you are riding your minibike

 

[karl]

diesel fuel, fuel oil or kerosene

Yep my one lawnmower got warmed up on gas them I started dumping used motor oil in the tank and the thing got so hot that my rubber muck boot was starting to melt. It ran for 4 hours straight before crapping out. You shoulda seen the spark plug on that thing. But I scored the piston, it was a junk motor anyway had a really bad knock.

 

[fowler]

if i was u id try to get it to run on vegie oil as that will get the most pionts with the hippies
and be very cool

if u were to install a glow plug that runs non stop will u need pre heating?

we had an old chamberlin trator that started on petrol warmed up then u ran it on kerocene

 

[B.M.800]

Just think....you would have the wonderfull smell of cooking when you are riding your minibike

Yes! Like following my brothers trucks, smell like french fries!

But I wonder how the mixture would have to be, if the engine could only burn a small amount without effecting performance.

 

[Justin9]

I think the trick would be finding a way to blend the three fuels into one and see what combo would provide the best fuel economy.... for example, mix all 3 at equal parts, and set the engine to run at 2800 rpms and only load it with 2 quarts of fuel and time how long it runs from firing off to when it runs out... and get a get setup and timing...

then once you use that as your base or control... then start changing the ratios and see what you get maybe...

I know with methanol compared to gasoline, you will need a much larger jet size and more timing... a methanol engine will run on gas, but it will spit and spudder and you will have to keep the throttle open some or it will die.