Hotrod steering, 29-32era ford. W/rack and pinion.

[mckutzy]

Was helping my buddy bring home his hotrod/ratrod '29 Ford.
His other hotrod guys help build the frame and set up the chassis thus far.
My friend is having a baby soon so he's wanting his project right at hand to tinker with at home instead of the other guys shop miles away.
Anyhow.... The steering wasnt quite finished yet and was somewhat over thought of..
Today we kinda mocked up a "good" idea to go with, as it makes routing the linkage and Heims a good place for it.
Currently there isn't really enough room for the rack to fit underneath behind or in front of the axle.
Since this is a ratrod and things aren't all supposed to be totally correct, I'm touching bases with some of the experts, is this alright to work in this manner... We're kinda new to this part..

This is a rack from a Porsche ?, non power steering.
(This is just just placed and connected loosely for a pic)

 

[mckutzy]

We had just flipped around the steering arms so they face up,(we had to remove the brakes and wheels to get at the arms) we still need to get longer arms that have a bigger U shape that fits around the upper kingpin area.
But the goal is to have the rack on the upper part of the frame horns.

 

[machinist@large]

Ford car's from that era that seem to wind up in the class you're working on traditionally have the steering box mounted at the base of the column, with the pitman shaft exiting the L/H side of the body, and the pitman arm attached to a shaft that extends all the way to the L/H spindle, with the horizontal tie rod to connect the R/H spindle running in front of the axle (leading to the phrase "suicide steering"; the tie rod is now the front bumper).

I really don't see an obvious easy answer on how to convert his current set up to use the rack......

 

[mckutzy]

Ya he doesn't have the typical steering box(vega style, or the ford traditional) used on these style of fords.
When they(the other guys) were building the frame they didn't have all the front end with them as they were building. The rods would have had just barely any clearance between the front wishbones and no clearance through to the other side as the motors oil pan is a front sump.

If anything, I know they're are sometime issues with how the steering is setup and in some ways it behaves differently.
Typically the racks of most other cars are behind the rear axle but under the frame, here's the exception to the rule, with that being said is there going to be any problems do you think with the rack basically mounted on top of the front horns?

 

[JMINDY]

How are you going to connect the steering shaft if the front of the pinion gear is pointing to the front of the car???

 

[mckutzy]

Like I said its just placed there. It will be positioned correctly when the bracketry is made.

 

[machinist@large]

The more information you give makes me think that your friend would be better off swapping the oil pan and pump to a rear sump set up; achieving proper Ackerman geometry with the rack in front of the axle is extremely difficult at best,and the difficulties you mentioned about the traditional set up most likely confirms that.

Also, most designs have the tie rod connection point's on the spindles in the straight ahead position and any type of rack all directly in line when viewed from above (looking down from the ceiling) ,as well as being as close to neutral in height from the floor as the spindles mounting point's.

I'm not saying that those are absolutes, but from what I've read, seen, and had explained to me, those guidelines seem to be considered best practices....

 

[mckutzy]

Ackerman.... I see... Hmmm...

I thought so, but wasnt sure how to put it....
I'll relay this to my friend. I guess we'll have to try to find a rear sump pan and pickup...
It's a dodge older 318m w/727 trans.

 

[ML-TOYS]

May i ask why the front end is sitting under the frame rails when normally it would be in front of the frame rails like in th following.

 

[mckutzy]

I think he was going for a later style, this is how it was when he got it.

 

[Joe-405]

May i ask why the front end is sitting under the frame rails when normally it would be in front of the frame rails like in th following.

That is a 32' Ford style frame and suspension. It is where its supposed to be. You are thinking of the earlier models used on model a and t style chassis.


And that will work fine minus one major issue. The steering is going to turn the opposite direction in the way you want to turn unless it's a reverse steer rack.

They have this style...............

 

[mckutzy]

My buddy says the rack when positioned correctly as where I described, will turn the wheels in the right direction in correlation with the steering wheel.

He says he's looking into getting steering arms with a 4" drop instead of a 2", which he has currently. Those flipped and place on the bottom of the kingpin/spindle plate will be at the right height for the rod ends.

Other than Ackerman, what other potential problems with steering might be present?

 

[Joe-405]

it could have a really bad bump steer issue also.