Hilliard springs

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itsid

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Thanks. Sorry to be a pain but do you know any UK websites? I tried looking but the chains I'm looking at are £200 and I don't think that's right haha

No that's not right.. go to a bike shop (yes bicycle) and ask for the heaviest duty BMX chain they got;
if nothing changed in the last 25yrs that is a perfectly good #40 chain ;)


Springs I'm afraid are not commonly available anywhere in europe.. US company, US sellers.
but they appear on ebay every now and then;
also there's the ukkartstore on ebay that IIRC sells Hilliard clutches,
maybe they're able to get the springs for you.

'sid
 

Metal_Rott

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I'm really considering selling the gx340 and buying a new gx200 clone because I have a clutch from my old 5hp briggs flathead
Considering the go karts frame (top heavy and narrow wheel base)the gx340 Is way to much engine, in my honest opinion. Unless you get some wider tires that gx340 Is going to shred those little tires. The 212 clones have plenty of power and lots of room for upgrading if you ever want more power.
I would keep the gx340 and slap on some wider tires but if clutch is to much of an issue ditch it for a clone. You will be happy either way :p
 

Brad_R

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To get the kart running I need to either 1)keep the 340 and get some more springs and a chain, fix the governor problem
2) sell the 340 and get a Launtop LT200
 

Brad_R

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To get the kart running I need to either 1)keep the 340 and get some more springs and a chain, fix the governor problem
2) sell the 340 and get a Launtop LT200

What are the consequences of removing/adjusting the governor? And would a stock exhaust be quieter for high rpm?
 

Metal_Rott

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Minimal consequences. Unless you upgrade the springs you won't break anything due to valve float (valve can't close fast enough) if you replace those springs you will push the motor to unsafe rpm's. Yes a stock exhaust Will be much quieter and equally restrictive. Remove the governor see if that makes your clutch engage ^^
 

Brad_R

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Minimal consequences. Unless you upgrade the springs you won't break anything due to valve float (valve can't close fast enough) if you replace those springs you will push the motor to unsafe rpm's. Yes a stock exhaust Will be much quieter and equally restrictive. Remove the governor see if that makes your clutch engage ^^

I will remove the governor next time i'm there - Can I just simply disconnect the governor arm from the throttle butterfly? I can't afford to buy new gaskets at the moment, :censored:.

How would I link a cable (It's from a bicycle brake) to the butterfly on the carb?

This shop is a Hilliard clutch dealer located in the UK: http://www.icpltd.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d905.html

PS: Your gx340 has an adjustment screw on the governor linkage, you could adjust it to increase your max rpm to somewhere around 4200rpm...

My governor linkages don't work. The slider (twisty bit below the air cleaner) turns smoothly but doesn't adjust the throttle. and only makes it change speed at around 50% of the rotation and its not smooth, it jumps from idle to speed. (I'm not sure how to describe it?)
 

carter

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I will remove the governor next time i'm there - Can I just simply disconnect the governor arm from the throttle butterfly? I can't afford to buy new gaskets at the moment, :censored:.

How would I link a cable (It's from a bicycle brake) to the butterfly on the carb?



My governor linkages don't work. The slider (twisty bit below the air cleaner) turns smoothly but doesn't adjust the throttle. and only makes it change speed at around 50% of the rotation and its not smooth, it jumps from idle to speed. (I'm not sure how to describe it?)

No, you cannot simply disconnect the governor arm. If you do that, the governor internals will go all over your engine and cause some real damage. The only way to do it safely is to open up the crank case and remove it entirely.
 

Metal_Rott

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You Can disconnect the governor but you have to keep a spring attached to the arm at a open position. Governor parts don't just come apart when removing the spring but what it does do, without being held in place is cause a fluctuation in rpm. until the arm is held by a spring it will just keep jumping around.

The throttle linkage has a screw on top where you can attach the cable. It pretty self explanatory when you see it. You will meed to remove air box to reach it.
 

carter

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You Can disconnect the governor but you have to keep a spring attached to the arm at a open position. Governor parts don't just come apart when removing the spring but what it does do, without being held in place is cause a fluctuation in rpm. until the arm is held by a spring it will just keep jumping around.

The throttle linkage has a screw on top where you can attach the cable. It pretty self explanatory when you see it. You will meed to remove air box to reach it.

when revving in excess of 4500 or so the governor can and likely will grenade inside your engine.
 

Metal_Rott

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" Let's start by outlining the governor's job description. Everyone knows that the governor tries to limit engine speed to (usually) 3600 RPM. But wait- there's more. The reality of it is this- the governor's job is to try to MAINTAIN 3600, not just limit it. The governor reacts to changing loads on the engine- decreasing throttle if it starts to run too fast, and INCREASING throttle if it starts to bog. This is why it is called a "governor", and not simply a "rev limiter".

Now- On to the question: "If I take out my governor, is the flywheel gonna go off like an atom bomb, blowing semi-molten schmutz everywhere, and killing every living thing in a 15-block radius?"

The short answer is no. The long answer: There are many factors involved here, and each must be carefully considered.

1) I always advise people that IF they are going to run well above governed RPM, to do it by fully removing the governor's internal mechanisms, and NOT simply bypassing it externally. Many governors are designed in such a way that if over-revved, can suffer component interference inside the crankcase, and/or have internal parts forced right off the shaft and bounce around loose inside the crankcase. Either case can cause severe engine damage. NOT an "explosion", just largely F'd up internals.

2) IF you are going to run ungoverned with an otherwise stock engine, keep the factory spec valvesprings in place. At a high enough RPM, weaker springs will cause a condition known as "valve float" or "valve flutter". This occurs when the valves cannot slam closed fast enough before the next cycle. This cause compression losses, and as a result, prevents the engine from spinning faster than that point. Valve flutter tends to occur in our engines around 5000-5500RPM. Your results will vary, based on your individual engine, spring condition, etc. Valve flutter occurs at a lower RPM than it would normally take to cause a flywheel mishap.

3) IF you want to get into RPM ranges HIGHER than this (say 5500+), now is the time to go shopping for high-performance internals. A billet aluminum flywheel, connecting rod, and stiffer valve springs are what's called for. Stiffer springs allow the valves to react faster, so at higher RPM, the valves won't float- NOW things really do have the potential to get a little crazy, so it's time to reach into your pockets for better quality parts.

4) Your connecting rod is MUCH more likely to fail than your flywheel. I have witnessed MANY more conrod failures than flywheel failures. In fact, I have never seen a flywheel failure. Most here haven't.*

5) Contrary to popular belief, a flywheel is NOT going to vapourize at 3601 RPM. This is NOT why your engine is governed to 3600 RPM. Your engine is governed to 3600 RPM because it is an industry-standard operating speed for all the implements these engines are designed to power. Let's NOT lose sight of the fact that these are industrial stationary engines- made and marketed with the primary purpose of powering equipment. Generators, pumps, power washers, welders, cement mixers, tillers, trenchers, tampers- you name it- and the implement are designed to run at 3600 RPM- So the engines are factory set to 3600 RPM. It's that simple. When a flywheel is manufactured, it is designed to run well above normal operating speed. It's called a safety margin.

6) NOTHING is 100% guaranteed. You can do everything completely properly, and have a flywheel fail at a "normal speed". OR, you can do everything wrong, and run the he// out of the engine at 7500 RPM on a stock 'wheel for a lifetime and never have a problem. Sometimes, there's just no accounting for "Spit Happens". Write that down.

7) IF you are running an otherwise stock, ungoverned engine, is it adviseable to avoid excessively free-revving the engine. Use proper gear ratios to keep a bit of a load on the engine at full speed, wide open throttle. Don't try to rev the wee out of the engine with the clutch, chain, or belt off. A load on the engine helps keep harmful vibrations (harmonics) in check. If you have an insanely long, steep downhill stretch in your riding route, back off the throttle going down it. If you hear the valves floating or the engine starting to over-rev, apply some brake force. Coasting too fast can force the engine to spin even faster than valve flutter can prevent.

8) Inspect your flywheel before removing your governor. A previously damaged flywheel can break apart at a completely unpredictable speed. Damage may not be visible (spit happens) but if it IS visible, replace it.

9) If you have to remove your flywheel for repair/maintenance, remove it properly. Do NOT beat the he// out of it with a BFH or pry on it. Invest in a flywheel puller. Failing that, try the following: Loosen the retaining nut until the nut is flush with the end of the shaft. Now, hit the nut squarely and sharply a couple times with a hammer. Most times, this will do it. You can also aid in loosening the flywheel with mutiple taps around the circumference with a soft-faced mallet or deadblow hammer. Do NOT beat on it with a steel hammer.*

10) If you need to hold the engine from turning while you are tightening/loosening a crank bolt or clutch, do NOT wedge a screwdriver or bar in between the flywheel fins. Although this is not likely to crack the 'wheel, a fin could break off. This will throw the 'wheel's dynamic balance off. An out-of-balance 'wheel is just asking for trouble. Same goes for sawing off alternate cooling fins (an old performance trick). If your fins are cast into the 'wheel, don't do it. If you have a Honda, clone or other engine with plastic fins, go for it.

11) Handle with care. Once you have the 'wheel off, don't drop it...

So- Armed with the above information, go ahead and make an informed decision. This guide arms you with what you need to know, to decide whether removing your governor is a feasible idea, and how to handle things if you do. And remember (for all the "Armageddon-is-coming-prepare-to-meet-thy-maker-in-a-sintered-metal-flywheel-induced-world-war-3-esque-everybody's-gonna-die-including-the-cockroaches-in-the-cupboard"-nervous-nellies out there... Spit happens. On the one hand, your stock flywheel will very likely be fine. On the other hand, even a performance parts could fail. Spit happens.

One last point here- For those that may not yet be ready to dive into their engine and come out with a handful of governor parts- Some engines (most notably Hondas and clones) have a VERY user-friendly means of governor adjustment. This adjustment is designed to fine-tune the governed speed to spec, but makes it super easy to gain a few hundred RPM- usually you can bring your GOVERNED MAX to 4000-4200 RPM with the turn of a screw. Your governor will still do it's job, but you'll run a little faster. Locate the manual throttle control on your engine- the little lever you would slide to increase or decrease RPM if you didn't have a remote throtte (gas pedal). Behind that lever is a screw with a spring wrapped around it- Notice how the throttle rests against the tip of that screw when you move the lever to the "fastest" position? Great. Remove that screw. Presto- instant maximum RPM increase- no fuss, no muss.

It is also worth noting that these engines were designed to run at 3600 RPM, day in and day out. If you do run faster, the engine will wear faster. Fact of life. Treat it well, maintain it well, and you'll never notice the potentially shorter lifespan."
 

itsid

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Considering the go karts frame (top heavy and narrow wheel base)the gx340 Is way to much engine, in my honest opinion. Unless you get some wider tires that gx340 Is going to shred those little tires. The 212 clones have plenty of power and lots of room for upgrading if you ever want more power.
I would keep the gx340 and slap on some wider tires but if clutch is to much of an issue ditch it for a clone. You will be happy either way :p
narrow frame and tires.. fair points..
but not enough power to shred kart or tires, just a little more top speed to compensate for the excess torque it provides ;)

212 is a predator, there is no such thing in europe!
we have gx200 clones (196cc) but no predators.

Also, selling an original Honda GX 11HP engine to get a chinese 6.5HP clone and then modifiy it to get maybe 10HP sounds like a bad plan;
the worst plan ever if it's not for the gear reduction box.
but still bad ;)

carter, keep your eyes open if you find a gx340 without the gear reduction, maybe a dead one, fubar if possible (cheap), that you can rip the crank case cover off and reuse that and the crank on yours.

worst case: you need to install a gear increasing jackshaft;
direct drive (no clutch) to double the rpm again, then mount the clutch to the JS out and go from there.
not pretty but possible.

'sid

PS congrats Metal Rott, you can quote Doc..., and you almost did it right... who would've thought :D
 

Brad_R

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You guys give me a headache. Brad_R just adjust the governor. Nothing will happen that's what they are built for.

Lol thanks for the information, it was alot to read :wai:
I've had a look and can't find anything on this forum - My governor manual adjust lever doesnt control the engine, it turns smoothly but the engine RPM jumps from (for all intents and purposes) 1500 to 2250, to 2500 to 2600 and back to 1500rpm :thumbsup:

I have ordered patern parts from (I think it was Rocwood) for the governor springs and they're around 1cm shorter and give the governor no slack. I'm not sure if they work yet as the governor arm keeps slipping around the governor shaft, no matter how tight it is. I am going to make a 'D' shape plate, slot it over the top of the governor shaft and rivet it to the governor and hope it helps. I'l post back when its done.

:backtotopic: Do the governor springs need to be slighly tensioned when the engine isn't running? (It defaults at the -carb-fully-open- position)
 

Metal_Rott

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Lol thanks for the information, it was alot to read :wai:
I've had a look and can't find anything on this forum - My governor manual adjust lever doesnt control the engine, it turns smoothly but the engine RPM jumps from (for all intents and purposes) 1500 to 2250, to 2500 to 2600 and back to 1500rpm :thumbsup:

I have ordered patern parts from (I think it was Rocwood) for the governor springs and they're around 1cm shorter and give the governor no slack. I'm not sure if they work yet as the governor arm keeps slipping around the governor shaft, no matter how tight it is. I am going to make a 'D' shape plate, slot it over the top of the governor shaft and rivet it to the governor and hope it helps. I'l post back when its done.

:backtotopic: Do the governor springs need to be slighly tensioned when the engine isn't running? (It defaults at the -carb-fully-open- position)
Loosen the top screw on the throttle linkage to allow the governor to move freely.
 
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