help with throttle, kill and brake set up with pictures

[DEDBRD]

Hi just joined the forum at started to work on my 1st kart. I"m home recovering from back surgery and know feel well enough to work awhile on this kart. I put on a new predator 212cc motor with a 0regon 12 tooth clutch. everything lines up great.Now I am working on the throttle and see how to hook it up . Next the kill swtch a toggle is bt the steering wheel. red wire is kill. photo shows on/off switch and red kill wire.

Next Brake peddle wont firm up. i filled the fluid and took calapier apart and cleaned up the rust. I replace the old stripped bleeder valves with new ones. i found threads on bleeding. still cant get movement on pads.DO BOTH sides of the pad move?

 

[scarletvw]

Typically only one side of the brake pads move because there is only one piston. Unless there is two pistons, one on either side, only one side will move.

as for the throttle, if you look at the first pic there is a hold down deal, I put the throttle cable sleave under that and tightened down and then tightened down the cable to the nut deal on the throttle arm.

And as for the kill, unhook the low oil connector and the gold square box, hook up kill to switch side where gold box was connected.

 

[scarletvw]

After looking at the pics more, it looks like both sides of the brakes "should" move.

 

[Nodroz]

Thare are 2 cables coming from your master cylinder, so I assume both sides should move.

Are you sure you bleed the hydraulic circuit? Maybe your pistons are stuck, try to get the loosened with some penetrating oil and patience.

For the throttle, look at the helpfull links from the forum topic. I'm sure there's some nice link there.

 

[DEDBRD]

Im giving up on the brakes. Cant seem to get enough movement to make the brakes safe. Might having something to do with the kart sitting out side for over a year.

Since I have a disc mounted on the axle should I buy a hydrolic system...maybe with just one side moves or scap the hydrolic and do something else.

BTY i was bleeding one line at a time from the bleeder nipple. But did notice the was like a allen head inside a larger allen head.

thanks guys for the help.

 

[DEDBRD]

I found a re-build kit for my gray billet system...maybe i should do that.

 

[GregMartin]

Dedbrd
Just looking at your engine pictures I notice a couple of things. Firstly you should disable the low oil sensor as this can cause the engine to cut out when the gokart is in motion. This is easy to do simply unplug the yellow wire that come out of the crankcase and goes into the gold coloured relay. Also unplug the black wire from the relay and remove the relay. Connect the black wire that comes from the ignition to the on/off switch and your finished. There is a second connector on the black wire that you can use for a remote kill switch or to drive a Tachometer in some cases.

Secondly it doesn’t look like you have removed the governor. There is lots of info on this web site and elsewhere online about how to do this on a Honda clone. I would definitely do this modification. With the governor removed you can replace the throttle actuating spring with a solid rod and pretty much leave you throttle linkage as is. On my Honda clone I found that the throttle mechanism had very loose tolerances and I didn’t like the way moving plate moved on the fixed plate when I loosened the nylock nut. A solution was found when I removed the governor components from the crankcase. One of the governor components is a small plastic pin/plug that pushes on the throttle leaver. I discovered that the inside diameter of the plastic plug was the same as the stud protruding from the base plate of the throttle mechanism and the outside diameter of the plastic plate was the same as the hole on the moving section of the throttle assembly. I cut the end of this plastic plug with a hacksaw and fitted it into the throttle assembly which basically eliminated all the play and allowed for smooth reliable operation.

Hope this helps.

 

[GregMartin]

Oh also I assume you have bled brakes many time before. If you have disregard my comments, however if you haven’t here are my quick tips.
1. Fill master cylinder with brake fluid.
2. Put small hose over brake bleed valve and ensure the other end of the hose is submerged in a jar of brake fluid (do one side at a time)
3. Crack open the valve and depress the brake pedal
4. Close the bleed valve and release the brake pedal
5. Repeat until the line is full of fluid.
6. Repeat on other side.
7. The pedal should be firmer but maybe still a little squishy.
8. Repeat steps 3 and 4 on both sides only opening the valve slightly until the pedal is firm. Remember to keep the master cylinder toped up during this process.
The aim is to push all the air out of the system so keep the master cylinder full and the hose on the bleed valve submerged while the valve is open.
Again if I am telling you how to suck eggs please just disregard

 

[GoodWComputers]

Dedbrd
Just looking at your engine pictures I notice a couple of things. Firstly you should disable the low oil sensor as this can cause the engine to cut out when the gokart is in motion. This is easy to do simply unplug the yellow wire that come out of the crankcase and goes into the gold coloured relay. Also unplug the black wire from the relay and remove the relay. Connect the black wire that comes from the ignition to the on/off switch and your finished. There is a second connector on the black wire that you can use for a remote kill switch or to drive a Tachometer in some cases.

Secondly it doesn’t look like you have removed the governor. There is lots of info on this web site and elsewhere online about how to do this on a Honda clone. I would definitely do this modification. With the governor removed you can replace the throttle actuating spring with a solid rod and pretty much leave you throttle linkage as is. On my Honda clone I found that the throttle mechanism had very loose tolerances and I didn’t like the way moving plate moved on the fixed plate when I loosened the nylock nut. A solution was found when I removed the governor components from the crankcase. One of the governor components is a small plastic pin/plug that pushes on the throttle leaver. I discovered that the inside diameter of the plastic plug was the same as the stud protruding from the base plate of the throttle mechanism and the outside diameter of the plastic plate was the same as the hole on the moving section of the throttle assembly. I cut the end of this plastic plug with a hacksaw and fitted it into the throttle assembly which basically eliminated all the play and allowed for smooth reliable operation.

Hope this helps.

I see that you posted this back in September (sorry) but I'm hoping that you're still on here because I've got to ask -

I will be performing the internal governor removal on my Tecumseh TVXL220 10 hp soon. I'm having trouble understanding your explanation on throttle and governor linkage. I've attached pictures of my current (and still stock) setup. It appears that with two linkages on my carb, there are two butterfly plates, one for throttle and one for the governor. Do I remove the governor linkage and butterfly completely?

 

[GregMartin]

Ok
With my engine the outer most butterfly is for the choke and the other one is the governed throttle butterfly. I can't quite see from your pics where your linkages attach so here are a couple of questions.

Q1 does the inside butterfly connect via a rod (maybe with a small spring around it) to the lever that comes out of the crankcase? If so this is the throttle butterfly.
Q2 does the lever that comes out of the crankcase have a spring connected between it and some kind of hand operated accelerator ( maybe with a pic of a tortoise at one position and a rabbit at the other position. If so this is all part of the throttle linkage.

Q3 could the outer most butterfly be connected to some kind of choke lever and not a throttle?

So the lever that comes out of the crankcase is acted on by the governor components inside the crankcase. Basically at a certain rpm centrifugal force on the governor causes a plastic pin to push on the lever that comes out of the crankcase.

I hope this makes sense. It's a bit hard to describe without pictures. Anyway the fact that the throttle control is connected by a spring means that the governor can over ride the throttle position.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

For the record, the outer plate (if equipped) is always the choke. Second, the governor (if equipped) does not "override" the throttle, it controls it directly, and always. When these engines are equipped with a governor, the hand (or foot) throttle merely alters the spring tension between the governor and the throttle plate.

 

[GregMartin]

For the record, the outer plate (if equipped) is always the choke. Second, the governor (if equipped) does not "override" the throttle, it controls it directly, and always. When these engines are equipped with a governor, the hand (or foot) throttle merely alters the spring tension between the governor and the throttle plate.

Give a bloke a brake. I'm siting here watching the cricket trying to describe the throttle assembly in as simple terms as posable from memory without pictures.

 

[landuse]

Give a bloke a brake. I'm siting here watching the cricket trying to describe the throttle assembly in as simple terms as posable from memory without pictures.

Who you playing?

 

[GregMartin]

Sri Lanka in a one day match. Australia won series was tied two all.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Give a bloke a brake. I'm siting here watching the cricket trying to describe the throttle assembly in as simple terms as posable from memory without pictures.

At least you're awake! I wrote that at 6:00am, two sips into my first cup of coffee, before leaving for work!

 

[GregMartin]

Ahh I see
10:30 pm here now

 

[landuse]

Sri Lanka in a one day match. Australia won series was tied two all.

Yeah, Sri Lanka are a surprisingly good team...

 

[GoodWComputers]

You guys are up early this morning! (Well, at least you North American members)

With my engine the outer most butterfly is for the choke and the other one is the governed throttle butterfly. I can't quite see from your pics where your linkages attach so here are a couple of questions.

Q1: Does the inside butterfly connect via a rod (maybe with a small spring around it) to the lever that comes out of the crankcase? If so this is the throttle butterfly.

Q2: Does the lever that comes out of the crankcase have a spring connected between it and some kind of hand operated accelerator (maybe with a pic of a tortoise at one position and a rabbit at the other position)? If so this is all part of the throttle linkage.

Q3: Could the outer most butterfly be connected to some kind of choke lever and not a throttle?

So the lever that comes out of the crankcase is acted on by the governor components inside the crankcase. Basically at a certain rpm, centrifugal force on the governor causes a plastic pin to push on the lever that comes out of the crankcase.

I hope this makes sense. It's a bit hard to describe without pictures. Anyway the fact that the throttle control is connected by a spring means that the governor can over ride the throttle position.

Thanks for the write-up! toystory was also nice enough to explain it last night in another thread.

Basically yes to almost all of your questions. The outer butterfly (choke) is not controlled by a separate choke mechanism. Originally there was a hand operated throttle control (this used to be a John Deere 68 riding lawnmower). This was connected (via throttle cable) to the lower right corner of the plate in picture #1.

I will be setting up a foot gas pedal at some point. Once I remove the internal governor and exterior stock linkages, the gas pedal will go directly (via throttle cable) to the throttle butterfly closest to the intake manifold.

For the record, the outer plate (if equipped) is always the choke. Second, the governor (if equipped) does not "override" the throttle, it controls it directly, and always. When these engines are equipped with a governor, the hand (or foot) throttle merely alters the spring tension between the governor and the throttle plate.

[taking the opportunity to educate myself further here in the presence of experts]

Why do some of these small engine carburetors have a butterfly choke and some don't? Is it purely because of the governor? If a stock small engine does not have a choke butterfly, is it safe to say that it does not have a governor?

Give a bloke a brake. I'm siting here watching the cricket trying to describe the throttle assembly in as simple terms as posable from memory without pictures.

Sounds like a nice evening. I just made myself some tea and toast for breakfast. No cricket on the telly here though.

 

[GoodWComputers]

Side, but related, question.

I just ordered this carb rebuild kit to rebuild my stock carburetor after I do the lemon juice clean. While I was on ebay I also noticed this:

Clone Carb w/ Air Filter Adapter for Go Kart Racing. Part #H128-3 Near New!

The listing states that it is a Ruixing H128-3 carburetor and that "it is set up for an adult kart" (not sure what that means). I can't find any information about that model on Ruixing's web site either.

Is it worth picking up a carb like this, or I am perfectly fine with just rebuilding the stock? Would there be any performance benefits?

 

[GregMartin]

When I removed the governor I reused a lot of the existing parts. I left the lever that comes out of the crankcase in place although I turned it slightly so the internal part cannot fowl anything in the engine. You will see what I mean when you split the crankcase. Some people remove these parts completely and plug the hole with a bolt it depends on how you want the new linkage to work.

I replaced the spring that connected the above mentioned lever to the hand throttle assembly with a solid rod. I then had to add some cable fittings to this assembly and do some other mods to allow the fixed and moving sections of this assembly to smoothly and return properly. You can buy buy hardware replace these bits as an alternative. Some people connect the cable directly to the butterfly and workout a way of connecting a return spring. It really just depends on what will suite the situation best and from which direction the cable will enter from.

Here are some pics showing what I did.


Hope this helps