Help with Comet 20 driver

[vd2021]

Good day all. I am new here and found your forum while searching for help with a comet 20. I purchased a well used go kart that has a b&s 5.5hp engine and a comet 20 torque Converter. There was no belt when I purchased it. I took measurements and ordered the belt. The belt arrived today and I installed it. However the belt just sits there and the movable part of the driver does not come out to engage and move the belt. I found a pdf for the system, dissembled and used a wire brush on my drill to clean all of the parts to a like new condition. it then moves a little but only enough to just move the wheels (I have the kart on hack stands). It seems to me that the springs are not allowing the zinc shoes to move. I tryed it with one spring and it still does not work. Is there something I can do? Help. Please.

Thanks

 

[r97]

did you clean the driven unit to? did you lube the clutch after cleaning it? pics?

 

[vd2021]

Just the to surfaces where the belt rides. I only lubed the shaft bearing that the moving part of the driver rides on. I have not taken any pics, but what pics would help? of it as a unit, disassembled? Just seems as if the shoe assembly is not opening. I can only get slight movement of the wheels at full throttle (on jack stands).

 

[r97]

any pics are good, look here for lube tips, i think your driven isn't opening,
http://www.reliablegokarts.com/transmission.htm please watch the vid on the link!
blazkowzie would know

 

[vd2021]

Thanks. Good video. I just used my fine drill wire brush and re-cleaned everything. Checked and ajusted the belt and alignment and it still doesn't slide to engage the belt. I remove one of the two springs and at full throttle it wants to move forward but doesn't. The rear wheels roll freely. It just seems as if the springs are too tight to allow the shoes to move out under the centrifugal force. I ran the engine with the drum off to see if the shoes were opening. I would blip it to full throttle and could not see the shoes open. If I can't find a fix for this I may go to the clutch and chain as these torque converter are expensive.

 

[r97]

what is your rear sprocket size, your jack shaft sprocket size? and what size tires? can you take the outer half of the driven unit and and turn it upside down so that the outer face of the pulley falls out freely(like in the vid)? if you take both springs off the driver can you slide each weight along the little steel shafts? is your driven setup correctly like in the vid? please take pics of the each pulley from the side with belt removed, take pic of setup mounted on engine and jack shaft, take pic of zink weights, of the 4 spline hub, and the driven cam. on the driven try putting the spring into the #1 hole

EDIT: identify your tc http://gokartsupply.com/identify.htm

 

[vd2021]

Thanks for your help. I'll take and post all of the pics this eveinig when I get home. I going through this as I studied the exploded view. Should I be able to rotate the shoe around the spendled hub? To remove the shoes I grab and rotate it.

what is your rear sprocket size, your jack shaft sprocket size? and what size tires? I'll get the tooth counts and tire size. can you take the outer half of the driven unit and and turn it upside down so that the outer face of the pulley falls out freely(like in the vid)? Sure can, just like the video. if you take both springs off the driver can you slide each weight along the little steel shafts? Sure can. I've polished all of the surfaces with a drill attached wire brush. is your driven setup correctly like in the vid? please take pics of the each pulley from the side with belt removed, take pic of setup mounted on engine and jack shaft, take pic of zink weights, of the 4 spline hub, and the driven cam. on the driven try putting the spring into the #1 hole I have not disasembled the driven unit yet. I've attached the Comet parts/assembly pdf.

http://gokartsupply.com/identify.htm, got it. I actually use it to determine which belt I needed. 203582A.

 

[vd2021]

Some Pictures

16x6.5 rear wheels. I'll get the tooth count a little later when I take the driver apart
.

 

[r97]

i'm not completely sure if it is supposed to look like it does but your driven's cams (pic 3) look as though they may be skipping over each-other. if you take the belt off then turn on engine does the driver expand? try that

 

[redsox985]

Your buttons may be worn. The cam should be up against them, not floating between. Also, the rust on your driver isn't helping.

 

[vd2021]

i'm not completely sure if it is supposed to look like it does but your driven's cams (pic 3) look as though they may be skipping over each-other. if you take the belt off then turn on engine does the driver expand? try that

With the belt off it slowly makes it's way over, but I can (with my mech gloves on) place my finger on the plate and push it back very easily. Even at about 75-85% throttle.

I have not taken the driven apart yet. With the kart on jack stands and the belt off I can rotate the tires by turning the driven. Wanted to resolve the driver issue first.

My wife had a class this evening so I won't be able to disassemble until my daughter goes down for her nap. I hope it's something simple that you guys can spot from the pics. Just seems as if the spring are not letting the shoes open or the shoe is not spinning with the drive shaft and not making enough rpms to expand. Thank you Guys very much for all your help.

 

[r97]

as me and redsox said it looks like you need a snap ring or something to keep the two cams on the driven up against each other. are you sure the engine is reaching high rpm?

edit: p.s. what is that gear box? is it a revers gear? make sure there is no reduction in it because it looks like it is a non-stock item, if it has a reduction thats prob the problem.

 

[vd2021]

as me and redsox said it looks like you need a snap ring or something to keep the two cams on the driven up against each other. are you sure the engine is reaching high rpm?

I don't have anything to measure the rpms, but it sounds and looks like it's spinning pretty fast. I know it all works together as a unit but, will the driven cause the driver not to function? I'll definitely pull, clean and reassemble correctly the driven. I'll get the pics posted this evening. Thanks

 

[r97]

well my best guess right now is that there is a reduction in the gear box there, or the weight were put in back-wards.

 

[vd2021]

as me and redsox said it looks like you need a snap ring or something to keep the two cams on the driven up against each other. are you sure the engine is reaching high rpm?

edit: p.s. what is that gear box? is it a revers gear? make sure there is no reduction in it because it looks like it is a non-stock item, if it has a reduction thats prob the problem.

So you think it's to slow to drive the shoes out? I would think even with a reduction at full throttle the shoes would move enough to make the kart move. I bought this off Ebay with no belt for a $100. Engine starts on 1st pull. If that box is a reduction to the point of not having the rpms for the torque converter and I can't run the engine with out it, I'll switch to the old clutch, chain and sprocket.

 

[vd2021]

Engine

This is the engine. It has a 6:1 reduction = 600rpm. That is no were near 1200-3100 rpm range needed for the torque converter. Not what I wanted to hear but at least I know. I'm guessing they couldn't get it to work after swapping the engine hence the reason for selling it. If I can't remove the reduction gear box, harbor freight has their 6.5 HP on sale for $99 and I have a 20% off coupon.

http://www.drillspot.com/products/81368/Briggs_and_Stratton_126332-0035_Intek_Series_Gas_Engine

 

[r97]

are you sure that is exactly it? because it has an internal reduction box bringing the rpm down to 600rpm, what does that gear box you have do? does it have a lever to shift into reverse? if not it is prob a reduction, i suppose it could also be a wet clutch. you can see in pic 3 (and a little bit in pics 1&2) that the engine was moved back to allow for that gear box to be put in.

 

[vd2021]

From the description it looks like it is designed to add torque for gas powered tools/equipment and with the engine at 3600rpm the PTO is at 600rpms and there is no lever to change any ratio/gear. I paid $100 for the go Kart with no belt. So I can't say for sure if the guy that sold it to me actually ran it with this engine. He did tell me that he recently put on this engine and didn't have a belt to run it. Check the description and let me know what you make of it. I think my best option is another engine. Thanks

http://www.drillspot.com/products/81368/Briggs_and_Stratton_126332-0035_Intek_Series_Gas_Engine

 

[r97]

whoa! hold your hoses get a tachometer to measure rpm of, gear box out-put, and pto shaft. some thing like this http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-contact-tachometer-66400.html

 

[T-man]

vd2021, your not going to like what I have to say, but here we go.
The person that had it befors you took the whole thing apart . driver and driven and didn't put it together right.
The driven's spring is sprung they took it apart and didn't reset it.
Chances are that the driver doesn't have any weights in it, at high rpm the clam pieces will still spread and grip the belt creating the slow movement ... I bet that if you reved up your engine and the tires started turning you would be able to agresivly grab you rear tires and they would stop.
Take the bolt out of the driver to take it off, slowly take off the outside part of the driver and pull the two apart ( like a clam shell ) fold them open, put on a table and grab your camera and take a picture showing us both inside halfs. dont pull any thing out...... then post picture here.