HELP – engine oil is watery and dark

[Kartin’ kid]

Hi y’all. I bought an brand new built engine (predator 212) from a guy off of craigslist a few months back and proceeded to bolt it onto the frame I’m working on. The guy said that he had run it for about an hour breaking it in and testing it out before selling it to me and I probably ran it for another half hour total under zero load. Today I went to check the oil just to make sure everything checked out and to my horror, a dark water like substance emerged. I’m not very well-versed in what the different colors/consistencies of oil mean but I’m pretty sure this ain’t good. Any advice on A: what the problem is and B: how I might be able to fix it/what I can do or if I’m totally screwed is VERY much appreciated. Here’s a picture I’ve taken of the oil and I can take more if it will help someone figure it out.

 

[CEB]

Looks like break in oil maybe mixed with fresh.Does the engine run good,my dude?
Def put fresh oil in it,but if its running good no panic.You say " built".Whats in it?

 

[Kartin’ kid]

Looks like break in oil maybe mixed with fresh.Does the engine run good,my dude?
Def put fresh oil in it,but if its running good no panic.You say " built".Whats in it?

I talked with someone who’s much more experienced than I am with this sort of thing and they told me basically the same thing. Did a quick oil change and now we’re good. Not that it particularly matters anymore but the mods list that the guy gave me was: aftermarket intake, jetted carb, 18 pound valve springs, electric start, aftermarket exhaust and a performance cam. Thanks for the advice –Naio

 

[redflash]

Howdy Naio.....I am "This Guy".. that was "break in oil" with zinc additive...nice photo. By the way that's a "mod 2 cam" from go power sports.
hope it's scootin for ya.

Da Flash

 

[CEB]

I talked with someone who’s much more experienced than I am with this sort of thing and they told me basically the same thing. Did a quick oil change and now we’re good. Not that it particularly matters anymore but the mods list that the guy gave me was: aftermarket intake, jetted carb, 18 pound valve springs, electric start, aftermarket exhaust and a performance cam. Thanks for the advice –Naio

If this is indeed a predator 212-you may STRONGLY consider ditching the electric start and getting a billet flywheel/con rod .
The stock springs are 10.8 ish lbs and limit the rpms to around 5k with no governor.If the motor has no governor,with 18lb springs AND a "performance cam"-well....Ive never seen a billet or PVL electric start flywheel for this motor.Doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
Search around on this site,you will see that the cast iron wheels spinning at 7kRPM is less than ideal.Like,dangerous.

 

[CEB]

Howdy Naio.....I am "This Guy".. that was "break in oil" with zinc additive...nice photo. By the way that's a "mod 2 cam" from go power sports.
hope it's scootin for ya.

Da Flash

You built the motor?

 

[Kartin’ kid]

Howdy Naio.....I am "This Guy".. that was "break in oil" with zinc additive...nice photo. By the way that's a "mod 2 cam" from go power sports.
hope it's scootin for ya.

Da Flash

Besides that little scare it Sure is!. Great to find you here.

 

[Kartin’ kid]

If this is indeed a predator 212-you may STRONGLY consider ditching the electric start and getting a billet flywheel/con rod .
The stock springs are 10.8 ish lbs and limit the rpms to around 5k with no governor.If the motor has no governor,with 18lb springs AND a "performance cam"-well....Ive never seen a billet or PVL electric start flywheel for this motor.Doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
Search around on this site,you will see that the cast iron wheels spinning at 7kRPM is less than ideal.Like,dangerous.

Looking at examples from around the Internet I definitely agree! The only time I ever plan to push it to its limit is maybe a single top speed run here I’ll only have the “pedal to the metal” for a few seconds maximum but besides that i’ll be driving it entirely on roads and parking lots where there’s only so fast you can go

 

[Denny]

Don’t you mean on roads and parking lots you can go so fast, instead?

 

[redflash]

Yes those flywheels exist.....but I built this motor to go no higher that 5000 rpm by keeping the stock ( though jetted) carburetor).....no ratio lifters,no timing changes, no actual racing mods. If you use a billet flywheel you will increase rpm because of the light weight aluminum, it spins up higher and creates more stress on the rod.
By keeping the stock carb you limit the amount of air/fuel and that keeps the rpms DOWN to where they are in a safe range.....It's a case of balancing the modifications , and not going overboard, this motor was not built to race, just to have a little more poop to have fun !
And No the factory governor does not limit the rpms to 5000.......the stock governor limits the rpms to 3600 rpm. And this motor will never see anything over 5000 rpm unless you put a 22 mm mikuni, billet flywheel. and alter timing.....Leave it alone !

Da flash

 

[madprofessor]

I’ll only have the “pedal to the metal” for a few seconds maximum

Factory cast iron flywheels that explode from high rpms don't necessarily need a "few seconds" to fail. A sudden failure of a clutch or of a belt on a CVT while you're "pedal to the metal" would instantly rev the engine as high as it will go, and it can be like going over a cliff for real.
Wile E. Coyote hangs in the air a "few seconds" after he goes over a cliff, but for real life you might explode a factory flywheel instantly by over-revving it.
I've searched all over in the past for a billet flywheel with a ring gear (unitized or separate pieces) for a Predator 212 with zero luck.

 

[madprofessor]

Those 18# valve springs are what puts the flywheel in danger of over-revving. The factory 10.8# springs will start to float somewhere between 5.K and 5.5K rpms, and then the revs can't go any higher, but 18# springs would allow 7.2K rpms with the factory carb if the motor got jetted right, has plenty of intake and exhaust, a decent cam, some timing advance, and some compression improvements. I wouldn't want to be within 100' of a cast iron flywheel then.
My own 212 flywheel is a PVL 28-degree that's tested at 17K rpm, and costs less than any others I saw.

 

[redflash]

The 18 lb valve springs will float way before 5500rpm, that's why racers use 29 and 32 lb valve springs in racing applications. The factory 10.8 springs will actually float before 4500 rpm. The 18 lb springs just give a little more reliability to the valve train.

As some of you have...I've searched hi and low for evidence of flywheel explosions, and find mostly NOTHING. I've seen evidence of over revved flywheels throwing magnets, and some scant conjecture of exploding flywheels. But very rare evidence.
That being said Yes I believe in XTRA safety, and if you suspect that you are anywhere near 6000 rpm or higher.......go safe !
But I think a lot of this flywheel business is supported by the guys who sell $150.00 flywheels, and $100.00 billett rods, and a guy named chicken little, my opinion only !

always play safe

Da Flash

 

[Kartin’ kid]

Don’t you mean on roads and parking lots you can go so fast, instead?

Well, yes and no. It all depends on how much area I can block off so I don’t have to worry about cars, and if I can’t be too loud. for example, the roads around my grandmother’s house are a great area to drive but if I were to really hammer on the accelerator I’d pretty quickly end up in a hedge. Or worse, getting yelled at by a cranky member of the homeowners association. The only reason I want the extra power is for a situation where I don’t have to worry about that and that case, I’m definitely going to be cautious. Not enough that I can’t have any fun, but certainly cautious.

 

[redflash]

We all here have picked up experience in different fields. My experience comes from building dirt bike motors, Volkswagen motors, and a few v8's over the years. I've built Harley choppers, Honda choppers, dozens of dirt bikes, a stroker vw powered Porsche speedster replica. and numerous V8's over the years. My opinions are just a compilation of my personal experiences over 76 years of life. I ain;t always right, but I'm often close.
So I'm not belittling anyone else's experience, just following my road.

And Naio.....just listen to everyone, reason on what you hear, balance what you learn......and gather your own experience so you can share with us later on

Da Flash

 

[madprofessor]

The 18 lb valve springs will float way before 5500rpm

OOPS! I misspoke about 18#, mine actually has 22# springs. Had to check my "build facts and record" to be sure. My current 212 is set up per the design of Jerry up in N.C. that I trust completely. and he set me up for 7.2K. But not with 18# springs, thanks for reminding me redflash.
KartinKid, that's why we're blessed to have a good number of sharp and experienced folks on this forum. There will always be somebody like me that opens mouth, inserts foot, not stupid, just getting very old.

 

[Kartin’ kid]

OOPS! I misspoke about 18#, mine actually has 22# springs. Had to check my "build facts and record" to be sure. My current 212 is set up per the design of Jerry up in N.C. that I trust completely. and he set me up for 7.2K. But not with 18# springs, thanks for reminding me redflash.
KartinKid, that's why we're blessed to have a good number of sharp and experienced folks on this forum. There will always be somebody like me that opens mouth, inserts foot, not stupid, just getting very old.

Ha! No harm done. I wholeheartedly agree with you on the blessed part

 

[CEB]

Yes those flywheels exist.....but I built this motor to go no higher that 5000 rpm by keeping the stock ( though jetted) carburetor).....no ratio lifters,no timing changes, no actual racing mods. If you use a billet flywheel you will increase rpm because of the light weight aluminum, it spins up higher and creates more stress on the rod.
By keeping the stock carb you limit the amount of air/fuel and that keeps the rpms DOWN to where they are in a safe range.....It's a case of balancing the modifications , and not going overboard, this motor was not built to race, just to have a little more poop to have fun !
And No the factory governor does not limit the rpms to 5000.......the stock governor limits the rpms to 3600 rpm. And this motor will never see anything over 5000 rpm unless you put a 22 mm mikuni, billet flywheel. and alter timing.....Leave it alone !

Da flash

Lol.Yeah,thats what i was saying about the 18lb springs,The stock springs limit the motor summat-as far as balancing that by starving fuel with a stock carb-never thought of that! Learn new tricks everyday sir!