HELP!!!! Cant Remove torque converter !

[theredneckrussian]

Hello Guys, Im new here and I had A question, I have a murray explorer Go Kart that the previous owner swapped some kind of briggs intek onto it and installed the driver pulley backwards ive tried PB blaster, 3 jaw puller, a torch, a crowbar so far and It hasnt even budged ! Ive been fighting this stupid thing for a week now and I was hoping to get it up and running by the end of the week because the weather was supposed to be nice. If you guys could help me out that would be awesome ! thank you very much in advance

 

[smgs92]

take a spark plug thats too long and hits the piston leave it in there it should unbolt right away

 

[theredneckrussian]

Alright Ill give that A shot Hopefully that works

 

[Justin9]

if you insert nylon rope into the spark plug hole with the piston down in the cylinder, then rotate the crank up to fill the gap, you can use the rope as a piston stop that won't damage anything... just fyi that's how we change the valve springs on our clone racing engines without having the valves fall down into the combustion chamber. just make sure your rope is long enough so you can leave some hanging out to pull the rope out when done...

I use the 1/4 nylon rope that is 100' or 50' at HF, cut in half that is plenty and its usually only like 2 bucks...

 

[qtband]

I think he has the bolt off, the driver is rusted to the crank. All I can say is keep working at it with PB Blaster and don't bend it up.

 

[greengoblin]

im assuming you're using a propane torch that will not do much, you can usually find MAPP/ OXY kits at any hardware store for 30$ that is hot enough to cut thin steel. if there is room behind the pulley put a garden hose on the shaft to avoid damage to seals

 

[jamyers]

Ooh, that looks it could be a problem...with the small-diameter 4-spline hub being the part stuck on the shaft, you run the risk of dragging the outer pulley cover off over it. Is the pulley-half (and weights) stuck onto the inner hub as well?

Also, PB Blaster isn't the best penetrating oil, liquid wrench, kroil are much better, with a 50-50 mix of acetone and ATF being even better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[theredneckrussian]

I talked to a guy at napa this morning ( probably not the best Idea) But He said To heat the crank but leave the torque converter alone and if I heat it up just right Itll break it loose and Ill be able to free it ? Anybody have any insight on that? It sounds like a long shot but im getting desperate and I might give it a shot if all else fails and if that fails ill just pull the engine and work from there Ill try to post some better pictures when I get home later today

 

[theredneckrussian]

@ jameyers I do belive so, I do have the part that goes against the block off but anything that is supposed to go with the outer clamshell is stuck on the crank

 

[jamyers]

OK...I'm not sure how familiar you are with these things, but here's a good exploded view of one from the good people at gokartsupply.com:

Now that I think of it, what kind of idiot puts that on backwards and leaves it there long enough to get stuck?!?!?

Anyways, the Moveable Face "ought" to slide right off of the splined hub, it's supposed to be a sliding fit and not tight (supposed to be, lol).

I'd be very careful pulling on the Outside Drum, you really don't want to deform it at all.

All that to say that you're fighting the small-diameter Splined Hub, to you're going to have to figure out a way to get down in there behind it and pull...problem is you don't have much room...
How much of the crankshaft behind the assembly can you get to? Enough to get a piece of 1/4" flat steel behind the hub?

Plan on this taking some time, maybe a couple of days.

99% of the job is to get ANY movement between the shaft and the hub.

Keep putting the penetrating oil to it at every step. Tapping on the crankshaft and hub are good ideas also, just don't deform them. A brass punch is great.

Start by turning the crankshaft around until the keyway is on top so you can use the keyway as a "channel" for some penetrating oil. Then keep feeding it oil and tapping on the shaft and hub a couple of times a day while you try to piece together something that would slide down behind there and get behind the hub, and a puller could also grab (like a piece of flat steel with a 3/4" notch in it, or two pieces of flat steel with half-circles in them to go around the shaft.)

After a day of Oiling/tapping, then put a puller on it (with either my new piece or *carefully* pull on the outside drum) and pull gently on the hub while hitting the end of the crankshaft (or puller) to try and jar the crankshaft inwards.

Then apply heat to the hub. Keep the heat on the hub as much as possible, the idea is to get it to expand away from the shaft. A propane torch will do if that's all you have, but hotter MAPP or acetylene will be faster / more effective. Get the hub good and hot (dull red-hot), then spray the crankshaft and seam with penetrating oil - idea being to get it to contract and/or suck oil into the gap. Pull some more, hitting on the crank.

Repeat as necessary...

 

[jamyers]

If you could get the Moveable Face and then Spring / Flyweight Assy off, it'd make getting at the Splined Hub easier - assuming there's room to get between it and the Outside Drum...

 

[OzFab]

Pfft, amateurs...

Welcome to the forum

WARNING: Shameless self promotion ahead

If you really get stuck trying to remove it (excuse the pun), try this

Posted in your welcome thread

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Okay Fab, NOW you've achieved shameless... LOL

In addition to the heating and oiling technique, there's another tactic you can try that I have had great success with. I call it the "shock treatment". Get things nice and warm with the torch, then pour a good quantity of water on it, right away. Quenching it like this causes the metals to contract fairly rapidly. The components will very likely not cool and contract at exactly the same rate, and this difference is what has a very good chance of breaking the bond between them.

 

[fowler]

He's already tried an actual puller
That thing won't help if a puller doesn't

All I can say is get an oxy LPG or acetylene torch

Then just keep working it
Can it go any closer to the block

If u heat it up then get a brass or ally drift (1/2 inch bar)
And hit the pulley further on, this may seem like the wrong diretion but if u can crack the rust bond then that's most of the problem sorted

U need some shock force
If u gently applying the force
Like using a crow bar or puller then u will wrap the pulley around the shaft before u break the rust

Try to dis assemble it as far as possible

Then heat up just the pulley that is stuck on the shaft
Try to avoid heating the shaft

When it is red hot ( or orange hot )
Spray some Penatrene oil on it then let it cool

Then give it a hit with the drift
If it moves then use the puller to remove it

If it doesn't then repeat the proccess

Oh it may help if all this is done Roth the engine n its side so the Lully is facing up
This allows the oil to soak thought the joint

Anougther method is to lay the engine over again
Make a water tight compartment over the pulley and shaft

Fill with deisel and leave it for a few days
Deisel isn't the best Penatrene but is quite thin and will slowly soak though the joint with will help
That's what we do to separate exhaust segments on the dozers because of course u can't belt a thin metal exhaust


Last method
Cut the f***er off

 

[OzFab]

He's already tried an actual puller
That thing won't help if a puller doesn't

It will if he used a 3 leg puller; that only bites on the outer edge, mine bites right on the shaft

 

[theredneckrussian]

Well I did give the old torch and penetrating oil trick and it somewhat worked ! i got it move a little bit!, Im still trying to get it off but the problem now is I'm pretty sure I melted something inside the pulley ... so I might just try to cut it and buy a new one if I did some serious damage to it (good thing I have some extra cash laying around at the moment lol)

 

[jamyers]

It will if he used a 3 leg puller; that only bites on the outer edge, mine bites right on the shaft

That's key, pulling right at the shaft.

Now that it's moving it's just a matter of oiling it and keeping after it, moving it back/forth until you work it off the shaft. Might even try another round of heating/cooling...

If you melted anything, it'll be the ($30) lead or lead-alloy flyweights inside there, and they're cheaper than the whole ($80) driver unit...

Once you do get it all off, you're going to want to give it all a thorough cleaning and once-over. Blazkowitz here on the board has a couple of great youtube videos on that.

 

[theredneckrussian]

Awesome, I thought it was something much worse to repair D:, Im definately going to clean it when i get it off, hopefully I can take the cart over to my shop this weekend and use my trusty acetylene torch and speed up the process, Does anybody Know where I could get those weights?

 

[theredneckrussian]

Thanks guys for All the help! I finally got the torque converter off with a little help from an impact now all I have to do Is fix the tires on the Kart and shes ready to go !!!

 

[kendelrk]

i know im late as i just seen this thread, but once you get a little movement of the driver clutch on the shaft, you can insert a pickle fork and tap it with a hammer to move the driver clutch off the shaft, it worked for me when i had an engine with a clutch stuck to the shaft.