Gokart wheel bearings and pipe?

Thepartsguy

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I have heard most youtubers say that if you don’t put a perfect length piece of pipe inside the hub in between the bearings the wheel will lock up when tightening the axle nut. Wouldn’t it be better to fill the hub with non-flanged bearings? then press two flanged bearings on each side and have it all compress kind of like a home made sulky bearing?? I just thought that’s why my front hubs had no taper on the inside so they could be packed with the non flanged bearings.
 

Master Hack

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The Utubers are correct. In that configuration tightning the axle nut would compress the inner races together creating a preload on the bearings.
If you used a nylock nut and tightened it only enough to remove free play, you would be ok. The safer way is to put a tube between the bearings at the correct length so when the nut was tightened there was no preload. If you did not use flanged bearings the hub would have to have a shoulder machined so that the bearings would not just slide through.Filling the hub with bearings won't work unless you put a snap ring on both sides of the hub to keep the hub from just sliding off the bearings. Another way is if the axle shaft had shoulders cut in it and the hub had matching shoulders. The perfect example it a trailer hub/spindle, we've all seen those. The reason they are made as they are, is to make them idiot proof, however tapered trailer bearings are slightly different, they still can be over tightened. As I say "nothing is fool proof to a sufficiently talented fool".
I was sentenced to 20 to life, in the bearing biz, so I know a little about this subject, though I may not express it in an understandable way.
 
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Master Hack

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That only works if the bearing stack is coincidently the same height as the hub is deep. If that's the case, go for it, just not a very economical way of doing it. Why not just cut a piece of tubing to fit over the axle? $.25 and done.
 

Thepartsguy

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Filling the hub with bearings won't work unless you put a snap ring on both sides of the hub to keep the hub from just sliding off the bearings.
ok so what I mean is take the front wheel nut off. push out only one of the flanged bearings. stick three or four inside the hub press the flanged bearing back in. Put the wheel back on the spindle. tighten the nut back down. wouldn’t the extra bearings inside the hub be better then a pipe?
50518998-342E-47D1-AB16-0E34B782EF9E.jpeg
 

Thepartsguy

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That only works if the bearing stack is coincidently the same height as the hub is deep. If that's the case, go for it, just not a very economical way of doing it. Why not just cut a piece of tubing to fit over the axle? $.25 and done.
The od of the pipe isn’t the id of the hub it wouldn’t even be considered a bushing. Bearings match the spindle and I’d of the hub like silky bearings.
 

Master Hack

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If, I'm reading that right...
The ID of the "pipe" needs to be the OD of the spindle. I think you are talking about the pipe fitting the outer race of the bearing? You don't need that. the flanges set the bearing in place. Its the inner races that get squeezed together as you tighten the nut. The "pipe" on the inner races sets the distance between the bearings to the same dimension as the outer races. Filling the hub with bearings would work if the dimension of the bearing stack is exactly the same as the hub depth dimension. If it is off by even .010, the result will either be too much preload or negative preload, for lack of a better term. I'm not a fan of flanged bearings to begin with, most are low quality chinese stuff, unless you go to an instrument quality bearing, and that is expensive. filling the hub with even cheap bearings is going to cost way more than a piece of "pipe".
Is it better? Well it will be stronger, it will create more friction, by way of a bunch more rolling elements. Even a pair of cheap bearings will have a bursting strength of several thousand pounds. A stack will multiply that by several times. All for a kart that weight a couple hundred pounds?
I'm a fan of overkill, but that is taking it to extreme.
 

Thepartsguy

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Is it better? Well it will be stronger, it will create more friction, by way of a bunch more rolling elements. Even a pair of cheap bearings will have a bursting strength of several thousand pounds. A stack will multiply that by several times. All for a kart that weight a couple hundred pounds?
I'm a fan of overkill, but that is taking it to extreme.
taking it to the extreme is the point. I held an 8hp kohler wot till it busted both valve springs.. the clutch we HAD to let off. if we didn’t the connecting rod would just break. but with the torque converter they can be held wide open for extended periods of time. like almost the whole straight road from the bridge to the four way. if The friction would cause a bit of drag I think it wouldn’t matter the tq would mash right through it. I don’t wanna wreck a bearing at 40... if I can make basically a ’giant bearing’ sammich I’ll just go this route. I’ve ordered a roll of cheap non flanged bearings.
 

Denny

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Ok, that will work if yer sure:
the bearing stack doesn’t stick out of the hub and there is no gap between the between the bearings when tightened up.
Terry, you gave him all the right answers and reasons not to try it. That’s all you can do, you can’t give him the brains to understand why it’s bad. He may have to learn on his own.
 

madprofessor

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A piece of common 1" water pipe (galvanized or black iron, seam weld doesn't matter) from any local hardware store will slide right over a 1" gokart axle with a fair enough fit, same for 3/4" pipe to 3'4" axle, and make an ideal custom U-Cut-It spacer of any length for the INSIDE of FLANGED bearings. They also are great for entire axle-length spacers from the inside of one wheel's inside bearing all the way to the other wheel's inside bearing, with the appropriate spacing cut for sprockets, brakes, more bearings, etc. Backing up here, if your axle bearings don't have flanges that allow you to tighten down all the way, or as with most bearings require a fine-thread thin nylock nut that allows a tightening to a certain point but won't back off because of the nylon insert, there's other options. With enough threads available, you can have a fine-thread nut on the inside of the hub for tightening a stretch of pipe spacers and components down tight (excluding other bearings), and use 2 fine thread nuts torqued down tight together (in place of a thin nylock nut) outside of the hubs for the hubs' bearing tension.
 

ezcome-ezgo

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Let's revisit my coloring book. What will now prevent the hub from moving side to side? The hub just sits on the bearings without anything preventing movement from side loading? Rain down educationalisms on us please.

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Master Hack

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Let's revisit my coloring book. What will now prevent the hub from moving side to side?
Nothing! If the bearings are not flanged it needs:
a shoulder machined in the hub so the bearings can not move in or the hub can not slide on the bearing OD. OR
the bearings need to be set deeper in the hub and a snap ring installed on the outside of the bearing.
Sorry I have not learned how to use a coloring book, to put circles and arrows on the drawing.
 

Thepartsguy

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I'm so happy! the head nurse came by with a coloring book and crayons and showed me how!
The red line would indicate where a shoulder would be and the green is where a snap ring would go.
Its either/or, not both.
View attachment 136341
I wanna use like 3 or 4 non flanged bearings inside the wheel hub and the two flanged bearings that are on the outside. I don’t know how to explain it any simpler...
 

Master Hack

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Yeah, understood. We are exploring the other possibilities. What you propose might work, Its just is unnecessary parts, work and expense is all.
When ya open the gate to the nut house all the patients come running....
 
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