Go-Kart Differential with Built-In Centrifugal Clutch

Status
Not open for further replies.
Z

zbuck

New member
Messages
781
Reaction score
5
Location
Ft. Wayne, IN
:wai: firemanjim, you are correct in your post. I did not mean to rain on his parade. If its a challenge hes looking for, then I say go for it. The use of JB weld in his last post scares me, JB weld is good stuff, but using it to replace welding I would have to question that. I seen several 4 cycles vert's converted to Hort'z, but the time and expense makes me think it is worth it, other than the challenge? Back in my earlier go kart racing days a lot of 2 cycle vert's were converted to Hort'z and they worked quite well.
 
ekrekeler

ekrekeler

New member
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Location
Dallas, TX
rmm727 said:
HRB217 is the code for the lawnmower model, not the engine. That code cross references to a Honda GCV190 engine. In other words a vertical shaft GC190 which is about 6.2hp. I have a GC190 on my DB30 and love it. I raised the governed rpm to 4000 rpm no load and it pulls great. I didn't want to run it no governor cause I've heard the timing belts fail. Mine and your's it appears came with the nice Honda aluminum flywheels so there's not much worry of them coming apart.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for pointing that out. I was completely unaware that it is essentially a GC190 turned on its side. As it turns out, I did not have to fabricate anything to rotate the carb, there were already screw holes in the case that I was able to clean all the dirt out of and screw the carb into. As for the governor, that's a different story. I can't use it like it is because gravity would constantly be engaging it. Making a new mount for it would be too much trouble for a noob like me. I'm considering ordering the bottom crankcase for a GC190. I found it for $30 on one site. Then I can use the dipstick too.

Is that a good idea? Or is it not worth it?
 
OzFab

OzFab

Well-known member
Messages
15,615
Reaction score
74
Location
Warwick Qld, Australia
zbuck said:
Back in my earlier go kart racing days a lot of 2 cycle vert's were converted to Hort'z and they worked quite well.
Click to expand...

2 strokes are a totally different animal; as they don't have an internal lubrication system, they can be mounted in any conceivable orienation & it won't make any difference to the engine... a 4 stroke, not so much...

ekrekeler said:
I'm considering ordering the bottom crankcase for a GC190. I found it for $30 on one site. Then I can use the dipstick too.

Is that a good idea? Or is it not worth it?
Click to expand...

Changing the orienation of the engine is not the difficult part, supplying oil the the areas that will be above the crankcase is...

This is just me (& I've put some thought into this) but, if I was to convert an engine from vert to horz I would rotate the engine 90° on the bore so, you would end up with the muffler on the underside of the engine...
 
ekrekeler

ekrekeler

New member
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Location
Dallas, TX
Fabroman said:
Changing the orienation of the engine is not the difficult part, supplying oil the the areas that will be above the crankcase is...

This is just me (& I've put some thought into this) but, if I was to convert an engine from vert to horz I would rotate the engine 90° on the bore so, you would end up with the muffler on the underside of the engine...
Click to expand...

Good thinking, but...
The intake is directly opposite the muffler, so that would be very hard to do, considering the carb has a fuel chamber that has to sit downwards, which would require some major modifications. Ones that I'm not experienced enough to do. Also like I mentioned before, the crankshaft comes with a built-in fuel dipper, the same one as the GC190. I should not need to do anything to flick the oil around if I position the engine the same as the GC190, with the piston being pushed downwards for the power stroke and the oil pan directly underneath. That's why I say it might be a good idea to get the GC190 crankcase, because that's the position I want it to be in. It would also be easier to mount on the kart verses mounting it from the side. It's thirty bucks, but that's a $250 engine just by itself.
 
Z

zbuck

New member
Messages
781
Reaction score
5
Location
Ft. Wayne, IN
:wai: I see another problem. Vert. lawn mower engines with a alum flywheel use the blade as a counter balance. when trying to start without the blade, it will rip the cord and handle right out of your hand and it may put a hurting on you. If you are going to do the conversion get a steel flywheel.
 
ekrekeler

ekrekeler

New member
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Location
Dallas, TX
zbuck said:
:wai: I see another problem. Vert. lawn mower engines with a alum flywheel use the blade as a counter balance. when trying to start without the blade, it will rip the cord and handle right out of your hand and it may put a hurting on you. If you are going to do the conversion get a steel flywheel.
Click to expand...

How do I go about obtaining a steel flywheel? A google search brings up thousand-dollar racing flywheels for cars. Is it possible to make one from something around my house or in the garage? Maybe some cheap parts from a hardware store?
 
R

rmm727

New member
Messages
621
Reaction score
9
Location
Brookville, PA
That engine wont be a problem with that happening. My GC190 has the aluminum flywheel and it starts fine without anything on the crank. More often than not, I see what zbuck posted as an old wives tale.
 
OzFab

OzFab

Well-known member
Messages
15,615
Reaction score
74
Location
Warwick Qld, Australia
ekrekeler said:
Good thinking, but...
The intake is directly opposite the muffler, so that would be very hard to do, considering the carb has a fuel chamber that has to sit downwards, which would require some major modifications. Ones that I'm not experienced enough to do. Also like I mentioned before, the crankshaft comes with a built-in fuel dipper, the same one as the GC190. I should not need to do anything to flick the oil around if I position the engine the same as the GC190, with the piston being pushed downwards for the power stroke and the oil pan directly underneath. That's why I say it might be a good idea to get the GC190 crankcase, because that's the position I want it to be in. It would also be easier to mount on the kart verses mounting it from the side. It's thirty bucks, but that's a $250 engine just by itself.
Click to expand...

No, I get that &, yes, it will help a lot but, I'm not sure it will completely solve the issue; I just don't want you to go to all the trouble only to destroy the engine over a minor detail; for instance, how does oil get to the rockers in a horz engine? Do some research :thumbsup:
 
ekrekeler

ekrekeler

New member
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Location
Dallas, TX
Fabroman said:
No, I get that &, yes, it will help a lot but, I'm not sure it will completely solve the issue; I just don't want you to go to all the trouble only to destroy the engine over a minor detail; for instance, how does oil get to the rockers in a horz engine? Do some research :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

This is an image of the engine design, taken directly from honda's website on the GC190.


It's not exactly a technical diagram, but the oil gets to the rockers through the governor and the timing belt. If Honda has a horizontal version of the GCV190, I don't see why I should try to model it after that.
 
Z

zbuck

New member
Messages
781
Reaction score
5
Location
Ft. Wayne, IN
I see what zbuck posted as an old wives tale.[/QUOTE]

:wai: Old wives tale ugh. I been in the small engine business going on 60yrs and I have had my share of kick backs from alum flywheel engines with no blade regardless of the make of engine. If your Honda starts with no blade and no kick back more power to you. I also know a couple of small engine mechanics/tecs that ended up with a broken hand/arm from the kick back from engines with alum/steel flywheels with no blades.
 
R

rmm727

New member
Messages
621
Reaction score
9
Location
Brookville, PA
zbuck said:
I been in the small engine business going on 60yrs ...
Click to expand...

How old are you? Nevermind, I see that you are retired. Sure you don't have a walker instead of a go kart? Sorry, I don't buy that it was due to a blade not being installed. Maybe timing, too low idle rpms, valve lash out of spec, or worn compression release on cam, but not because the blade wasn't installed. You realize that NR racing sells the same flywheel from a GXV Honda pushmower engine for guys to install on their GX engines? Let alone ARC makes a ultralight flywheels for Hondas and clones.

http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/31110-z1v-810.htm

http://www.arcracing.com/6602-arc-clone-gx200-ultra-light-flywheel/
 
OzFab

OzFab

Well-known member
Messages
15,615
Reaction score
74
Location
Warwick Qld, Australia
I can take a joke as well as the next guy but, that's the problem with reading text, emotion is not conveyed &, sometimes, a joke can be easily misconstrued as an insult; we're good :thumbsup: You good with that zbuck?
 
Z

zbuck

New member
Messages
781
Reaction score
5
Location
Ft. Wayne, IN
:wai:
rmm727 said:
How old are you? Nevermind, I see that you are retired. Sure you don't have a walker instead of a go kart? Sorry, I don't buy that it was due to a blade not being installed. Maybe timing, too low idle rpms, valve lash out of spec, or worn compression release on cam, but not because the blade wasn't installed. You realize that NR racing sells the same flywheel from a GXV Honda pushmower engine for guys to install on their GX engines? Let alone ARC makes a ultralight flywheels for Hondas and clones.

http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/31110-z1v-810.htm

http://www.arcracing.com/6602-arc-clone-gx200-ultra-light-flywheel/
Click to expand...

As far as age, I will be 71 in a few days. No walker. No need to feel sorry, everybody is entitle to their own opinion. I doubt that the NR flywheels are factory GXV. Arc is a good flywheel, as I have a couple for my Hondas.
 
Poboy kartman

Poboy kartman

Senior Moments Member
Messages
12,461
Reaction score
72
Location
White Settlement Texas
zbuck said:
:wai:

As far as age, I will be 71 in a few days. No walker. No need to feel sorry, everybody is entitle to their own opinion. I doubt that the NR flywheels are factory GXV. Arc is a good flywheel, as I have a couple for my Hondas.
Click to expand...

My mother is in her 80's and still working.....

But.....if you don't have a walker Z-buck.....I hope you at least have an emergency pendant....:lolgoku:

See how easy that was????? Smileys are your friend.....:thumbsup:

Edit: BTW: A lot of racing karts are started with remote starters.....or are direct drive and push started....so they can get away with less counterbalance in their flywheels..... but not listening to cranky old knowledgeable old men can get your arm broken.....one way or another.....LOL.....
 
Z

zbuck

New member
Messages
781
Reaction score
5
Location
Ft. Wayne, IN
....

But.....if you don't have a walker Z-buck.....I hope you at least have an emergency pendant....:lolg
.... but not listening to cranky old knowledgeable old men can get your arm broken.....one way or another.....LOL.....[/QUOTE]

:wai: No pendant either. Been thinking about getting a walker and powering it with a v-twin 20 hp Kaw that I took out of a wrecked Gator. Their is some truth in your funny old men statement, as I know a few of those Guys. Not me of course.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top