gear ratio with torque converter

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Brandonogfarrell

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hi, i bought a 40 series torque converter and don't really know what is the best ratio.

the max weight of my go kart with me on it is 400 lbs

the engine is a 9hp

the rear tires are 16 inch

and it need to have a lot of torque to climb hill

thank you !:ack2:
 

itsid

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No, thank YOU!

that's actually the first time in a while where we have all the needed information in a single post :D

Ratio dialed in for good speed.. 5:1
KartInfo by kartcalc.net:
Code:
[FONT="Verdana"]
[B][U]KART[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]RW diameter[/I]: [B] 40.64 cm | 16 in[/B]
[I]Total weight[/I]: [B] 181 kg | 399.04 lbs[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]ENGINE[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Original HP[/I]: [B] 9[/B]
[I]Asummed HP[/I]: [B] ~9[/B]
[I]Torque[/I]: [B] 17.8 Nm | 13.13 ft lbf[/B]
[I]RPM[/I]: [B] 3600[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]TRANSMISSION[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Final ratio[/I]: [B] 5:1[/B]
[I]TC type[/I]: [B]  series 40[/B]
[I]Lowest ratio[/I]: [B] 12.15:1[/B]
[I]Highest ratio[/I]: [B] 5:1[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]PERFORMANCE[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Max Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 216.27 Nm | 159.51 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Min Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 89 Nm | 65.64 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Acceleration[/I]: [B] 3.57 m/s² | 11.71 ft/s²[/B]
[I]Top Speed[/I]: [B] 55.16 km/h | 34.27 mph[/B]
[/INDENT]
[/FONT]
(4.7:1 would be the absolute highest I'd recommend ;))

but you asked for torque.. so here we are:
number from the guts... 7:1 ratio (mid everything)
KartInfo by kartcalc.net:
Code:
[FONT="Verdana"]
[B][U]KART & ENGINE [/U][/B]
[INDENT]as above [/INDENT]
[B][U]TRANSMISSION[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Final ratio[/I]: [B] 7:1[/B]
[I]TC type[/I]: [B]  series 40[/B]
[I]Lowest ratio[/I]: [B] 17.01:1[/B]
[I]Highest ratio[/I]: [B] 7:1[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]PERFORMANCE[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Max Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 302.78 Nm | 223.32 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Min Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 124.6 Nm | 91.9 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Acceleration[/I]: [B] 5 m/s² | 16.41 ft/s²[/B]
[I]Top Speed[/I]: [B] 39.4 km/h | 24.48 mph[/B]
[/INDENT]
[/FONT]

7:1 already gives you good torque and should be able to climb reasonable hills
(I will crosscheck to verify in a moment...)

you can however safely lower the ratio to 9:1
(enough clearance in most situations thanks to the wheelsize)
KartInfo by kartcalc.net:
Code:
[FONT="Verdana"]
[B][U]KART & ENGINE [/U][/B]
[INDENT]as above [/INDENT]
[B][U]TRANSMISSION[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Final ratio[/I]: [B] 9:1[/B]
[I]TC type[/I]: [B]  series 40[/B]
[I]Lowest ratio[/I]: [B] 21.87:1[/B]
[I]Highest ratio[/I]: [B] 9:1[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]PERFORMANCE[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Max Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 389.29 Nm | 287.13 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Min Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 160.2 Nm | 118.16 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Acceleration[/I]: [B] 6.43 m/s² | 21.1 ft/s²[/B]
[I]Top Speed[/I]: [B] 30.64 km/h | 19.04 mph[/B]
[/INDENT]
[/FONT]
That will come at a price of top speed as you can see, but that's massive torque to play with!
In the end that's up to you.. anything within 5 to 9 would work :D

[EDIT]
So... UPHILL torque
Fi = m * g * sin(alpha) (inclinational force to overcome, with masss m, on an alpha inclination)
(I'll stick with metric units, that's just much nicer...)

181kg * 9.81m/s² * sin(10°) (ten degree angle is ~18% inclination..MASSIVE in short)

that's 308.3 N of force.. times wheel radius (0.2032 )
62,65 Nm needed to "not roll down" said massive inclination.

as you can see, all three ratios should be able to get up such hill with your engine.. without a problem
(just at very different speeds ;))

'sid
 

Brandonogfarrell

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No, thank YOU!

that's actually the first time in a while where we have all the needed information in a single post :D

Ratio dialed in for good speed.. 5:1
KartInfo by kartcalc.net:
Code:
[FONT="Verdana"]
[B][U]KART[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]RW diameter[/I]: [B] 40.64 cm | 16 in[/B]
[I]Total weight[/I]: [B] 181 kg | 399.04 lbs[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]ENGINE[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Original HP[/I]: [B] 9[/B]
[I]Asummed HP[/I]: [B] ~9[/B]
[I]Torque[/I]: [B] 17.8 Nm | 13.13 ft lbf[/B]
[I]RPM[/I]: [B] 3600[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]TRANSMISSION[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Final ratio[/I]: [B] 5:1[/B]
[I]TC type[/I]: [B]  series 40[/B]
[I]Lowest ratio[/I]: [B] 12.15:1[/B]
[I]Highest ratio[/I]: [B] 5:1[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]PERFORMANCE[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Max Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 216.27 Nm | 159.51 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Min Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 89 Nm | 65.64 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Acceleration[/I]: [B] 3.57 m/s² | 11.71 ft/s²[/B]
[I]Top Speed[/I]: [B] 55.16 km/h | 34.27 mph[/B]
[/INDENT]
[/FONT]
(4.7:1 would be the absolute highest I'd recommend ;))

but you asked for torque.. so here we are:
number from the guts... 7:1 ratio (mid everything)
KartInfo by kartcalc.net:
Code:
[FONT="Verdana"]
[B][U]KART & ENGINE [/U][/B]
[INDENT]as above [/INDENT]
[B][U]TRANSMISSION[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Final ratio[/I]: [B] 7:1[/B]
[I]TC type[/I]: [B]  series 40[/B]
[I]Lowest ratio[/I]: [B] 17.01:1[/B]
[I]Highest ratio[/I]: [B] 7:1[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]PERFORMANCE[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Max Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 302.78 Nm | 223.32 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Min Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 124.6 Nm | 91.9 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Acceleration[/I]: [B] 5 m/s² | 16.41 ft/s²[/B]
[I]Top Speed[/I]: [B] 39.4 km/h | 24.48 mph[/B]
[/INDENT]
[/FONT]

7:1 already gives you good torque and should be able to climb reasonable hills
(I will crosscheck to verify in a moment...)

you can however safely lower the ratio to 9:1
(enough clearance in most situations thanks to the wheelsize)
KartInfo by kartcalc.net:
Code:
[FONT="Verdana"]
[B][U]KART & ENGINE [/U][/B]
[INDENT]as above [/INDENT]
[B][U]TRANSMISSION[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Final ratio[/I]: [B] 9:1[/B]
[I]TC type[/I]: [B]  series 40[/B]
[I]Lowest ratio[/I]: [B] 21.87:1[/B]
[I]Highest ratio[/I]: [B] 9:1[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]PERFORMANCE[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Max Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 389.29 Nm | 287.13 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Min Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 160.2 Nm | 118.16 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Acceleration[/I]: [B] 6.43 m/s² | 21.1 ft/s²[/B]
[I]Top Speed[/I]: [B] 30.64 km/h | 19.04 mph[/B]
[/INDENT]
[/FONT]
That will come at a price of top speed as you can see, but that's massive torque to play with!
In the end that's up to you.. anything within 5 to 9 would work :D

[EDIT]
So... UPHILL torque
Fi = m * g * sin(alpha) (inclinational force to overcome, with masss m, on an alpha inclination)
(I'll stick with metric units, that's just much nicer...)

181kg * 9.81m/s² * sin(10°) (ten degree angle is ~18% inclination..MASSIVE in short)

that's 308.3 N of force.. times wheel radius (0.2032 )
62,65 Nm needed to "not roll down" said massive inclination.

as you can see, all three ratios should be able to get up such hill with your engine.. without a problem
(just at very different speeds ;))

'sid

so if i use #50chain and a 5;1 ratio i 12 teeth on my jackshaft and a 60 teeth on my axle ?
 

itsid

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#40 will be good too, and will not break either...
plus that's a common size for the TC and axle sprockets ;)
much cheaper and easier to get ... just saying :D

'sid
 

mckutzy

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Ya... pardon me... Meant to say, it will change the ratio, trying to accommodate the largest sprocket that will fit, will most likely lower the tooth count as more is bigger.
 

Bladerunner

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I have around 4hp and I run 8.02:1 on my bike with 26" tires, and will take me to just over 45mph at almost 5krpm. That's the equivalent of a 4.9 for your tires. Also the TC will rob some power and limit your rpms to the shift rpm; for a 30 series that is 3300rpm stock but can be modified by changing driver springs.

So yes, the 4.7:1 is about the highest I would go. I actually tried running with a 6.42, which for you is a 3.95, and the single speed acceleration was embarrassing but after half a mile I topped out at 55mph at like 4400rpm or something. This all with a 3.5hp flathead with some basic mods. Total weight bike and rider around 240lbs.
 

Bladerunner

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And for chain size, go with the 41; most popular size for stuff like this. Also easy to calculate sprocket size, as each tooth is a half inch long. So your 60t sprocket is probably just under 10" diameter.
 
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