Gas to Electric conversion. Motor/Controller decisions

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SloS13

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Hi. Doing a budget gas->electric conversion. Building a 16s15p li-ion pack. I think I've decided on a motor and controller but I'm not sure enough to pull the trigger.

Motor: Link

Controller: Link

On the controller page, it states that it's suitable for a 1000-1500w motor, even though it's a 2500w controller. Didn't know if that was a typo, or what but it has me worried. Other than that, does this seem like a solid setup?
 

itsid

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it's NOT a typo!

the controller peaks at 55Amps (usually that means 10secs at that current until it boils it's internals)
and it also means that you have not much more than 30Amps to be drawn continuously
to keep the controller alive.

the motor you linked allegedly draws 45Amps (certainly peaks slightly higher at stalling speed)
thus it's too powerhungry.

What you want is a controller that peaks around 100Amps and delivers at least 45(better 50) amps continuously

...
And if you ask if it seems to be a solid setup if you bild yourself a 240 cell LiPo pack
then my answer will be NO!
(unless you are a professional electrician, trained and skilled in the arts of batpacking)

ONE bad move
like soldering wires for a hair too long,
having the spotwelder on a tiny bit too long,
using the wrong or incorrectly dimensioned strips,
misorientate one cell by mistake,
having forgotten to prelevel all cells
etc.etc...

can result in a burn the house down party that's taken way too literally!

'sid
 

SloS13

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I've got a 10s8p that I built for another kart that's been running fine for about a year and have plans to make this next, bigger battery as safe as I can (steel, concrete enclosure). 60v@100A would require a 6000w controller? Are these controllers not smart enough to keep themselves from burning out?

I forgot to mention, this is a 'cruise around the neighborhood' type of go kart, not offroad or racing.
 

anickode

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I've got a 10s8p that I built for another kart that's been running fine for about a year and have plans to make this next, bigger battery as safe as I can (steel, concrete enclosure). 60v@100A would require a 6000w controller? Are these controllers not smart enough to keep themselves from burning out?

are all the cells absolutely identical? Brand, capacity, chemistry, peak current, charge specs, internal resistance, age, etc?

Or is is just a mishmosh of cells at unknown points in their lifespans pulled from old laptop batteries?

If it's the latter, you've already increased the potential for failure exponentially.

Bulk discount cells bought online aren't much better, and are frequently like I mentioned above, a pile of assorted cells that went to China for recycling, where they sort out any cells that aren't completely dead, put them through some basic testing, derate them, and rewrap them, often with counterfeit labels.

Steel and concrete encolsure? Why not just use a lead acid battery and save a heap of money then?
 

itsid

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frankly for a power consumption like this..
I'd pick tapped cells and bolt them to copper bus bars with copper bolts..
that way you can use the same busbar for initial levelling and final mounting...
and in case a cell dies for one reason or another it takes two bolts to replace it (well more or less two)

Also since tapped cells are usually of much higher capacity you can reduce the cell count
in your case to a 5P pack instead (still 80 cells which require serious precaution)

... hmm... how about premade 12V LiPo batteries (come in motorbike sizes usually)
overall not more expensive than DIY I'd say but professionally made (if not the cheapest chinese crap you could find that is)
benefit.. you can set up your system with same size LeadAcid first
and swap for LiPo packs as you go just to reduce weight a notch

60v@100A would require a 6000w controller? Are these controllers not smart enough to keep themselves from burning out?

controllers like those cannot current limit (well most can't let's say)
current is limited by the bottleneck which in this case is the motor coil..
if IT draws 60Amps the MosFets will deliver those Amps.. (up to the point where they overheat and cook off their case)
the magic smoke routine we all know and love :(
depends on cooling (or 'heatsinking' mostly)
the same MosFet actively cooled can reliably deliver 100 Amps that'll boil off in an instant under 20-30Amp load uncooled.
That's why a controller would have to constantly measure it's own temperature (a nasty task in itself) to prevent overheating without throtteling the power too much...
Such controller would be rather expensive.. in fact more expensive than an identically rated controller that just uses bigger MosFets.
...

Anyways:

kelly has a sinusoidial 120° brushless controller with 50Amp continuous and 120Amp peak
but it's twice as expensive as the aliexpress one:
http://kellycontroller.com/kls7212s24v-72v120asinusoidal-brushless-motor-controller-p-1348.html

frankly.. IMO still the much better option!


'sid
 

SloS13

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Anyways:

kelly has a sinusoidial 120° brushless controller with 50Amp continuous and 120Amp peak
but it's twice as expensive as the aliexpress one:
http://kellycontroller.com/kls7212s24v-72v120asinusoidal-brushless-motor-controller-p-1348.html

frankly.. IMO still the much better option!

'sid

I'd be willing to spend a little extra on a controller so I'll strongly consider that one. Thanks for the tip!

As far as my 18650's go, I had good luck with my last pack so I'll be following the same method with this pack construction. Copper bus bars with resistor leg fuses and main load fuse. Batteries are discharged and charged twice and tested for capacity. For this battery I'll be testing all IRs also. I've got about 200 or so batteries ready so far but have another 100 to go and will be picking the best for this project.
 
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