FL250 Odyysey (Bighead Help)

[marty1]

Bighead, I'm going through the rebuild from ****. but I'm very persistant. First problem: It's running rich (plug wet/ oiley). I can hold the spark plug while pulling the cord and do not need to let go of the plug? I tried my mower but the shock was huge. With that said I've had it running both slow and fast but oil splooge evident. I'm running amsoil interceptor 45: 1. (Bighead - I've rebuilt and adjusted - Carb, new coil, spark plugs, pressure tested motor, replaced stator wires, checked ignition and pulse coils specs (close to manual), emailed Oddatv who sells coils on ebay, said they checked out, jumped wires from stator (ignition, pulse and ground wires directly to CDI (to bypass killswitch), but still weak spark maybe (Still runs). Multimetered all ground wires for continuity, all good. Second problem: Carb overflow has gas dripping out of hose. I cleaned Fuel needle, adjusted float bowl to 22mm, tried another Fuel Tee, but at idle fuel slowly spits out. Tried an open Tee and of course no fuel leaked. Was hoping the Tee pressure might be flooding the carb. Checked the spark plug but still wet with the open Tee. I will order a new check Tee valve, hope this solves the leak. Could this be wiring, stator ignition coil, cdi or holding plug while pulling and weak spark is normal??? Please help, Thanks Marty.

 

[BirdFanatic]

Bighead, I'm going through the rebuild from ****. but I'm very persistant. First problem: It's running rich (plug wet/ oiley). I can hold the spark plug while pulling the cord and do not need to let go of the plug? I tried my mower but the shock was huge. With that said I've had it running both slow and fast but oil splooge evident. I'm running amsoil interceptor 45: 1. (Bighead - I've rebuilt and adjusted - Carb, new coil, spark plugs, pressure tested motor, replaced stator wires, checked ignition and pulse coils specs (close to manual), emailed Oddatv who sells coils on ebay, said they checked out, jumped wires from stator (ignition, pulse and ground wires directly to CDI (to bypass killswitch), but still weak spark maybe (Still runs). Multimetered all ground wires for continuity, all good. Second problem: Carb overflow has gas dripping out of hose. I cleaned Fuel needle, adjusted float bowl to 22mm, tried another Fuel Tee, but at idle fuel slowly spits out. Tried an open Tee and of course no fuel leaked. Was hoping the Tee pressure might be flooding the carb. Checked the spark plug but still wet with the open Tee. I will order a new check Tee valve, hope this solves the leak. Could this be wiring, stator ignition coil, cdi or holding plug while pulling and weak spark is normal??? Please help, Thanks Marty.

Wow that could be why its running rich if you have 45:1
stock 81 manuel says do 20:1
You can also gap the spark better to give a bigger spark not only that but a bigger hotter spark means more fuel burned

 

[landuse]

Bighead has unfortunately not been on the forum now for a few years, and I doubt he is around anymore.

 

[marty1]

Thanks for the response guys. Birdfanatic, correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't 45 to 1 (45 gas to 1 of oil) making (20 of gas to 1 of oil) much richer? I guess when I said rich I meant both gas and oil - wet plug. Last time I pulled the DG muffler off and poured unburnt oil out of exhaust pipe! I'm sorry to hear Bighead isn't around, He seemed very knowlegable. If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate. Since the odyssey runs, Does anyone think even though I don't get a strong shock from the plug I should concentrate on electrical or look elsewhere. Thanks again. Marty.

 

[BirdFanatic]

Thanks for the response guys. Birdfanatic, correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't 45 to 1 (45 gas to 1 of oil) making (20 of gas to 1 of oil) much richer? I guess when I said rich I meant both gas and oil - wet plug. Last time I pulled the DG muffler off and poured unburnt oil out of exhaust pipe! I'm sorry to hear Bighead isn't around, He seemed very knowlegable. If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate. Since the odyssey runs, Does anyone think even though I don't get a strong shock from the plug I should concentrate on electrical or look elsewhere. Thanks again. Marty.

the best way to measure is to get a measuring cup they make them at walmart and auto zone for about 3 to 4$
If unburnt oil is coming out the muffler (your running rich less oil is lean to little rich is to much )there is to much oil and the extra is coming out the tail pipe 20:1 per gallon of gas

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...-when-they-say-running-too-lean-or-too-rich-q
Re: what does it mean when they say running "too lean" or "too ri

Well, if you are to rich, then it means in a 2 stroke that there is to much oil getting into the cyclinders and if you are to lean, there is not enough and this can be deadly to a 2 stroke. In 4 strokes it means it is not getting enough gas if it is running lean and to much gas if it is rich.Just my .02 worth.

 

[Poboy kartman]

Thanks for the response guys. Birdfanatic, correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't 45 to 1 (45 gas to 1 of oil) making (20 of gas to 1 of oil) much richer? I guess when I said rich I meant both gas and oil - wet plug. Last time I pulled the DG muffler off and poured unburnt oil out of exhaust pipe! I'm sorry to hear Bighead isn't around, He seemed very knowlegable. If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate. Since the odyssey runs, Does anyone think even though I don't get a strong shock from the plug I should concentrate on electrical or look elsewhere. Thanks again. Marty.

You're not wrong per se....but oil to fuel ratio has very little to do whether an engine runs rich or lean.....so to speak....a well running engine will still run very well with a double oil mix....just blow way more smoke....and foul the plug sooner....

But.....ummm....fuel mix doesn't have ANYTHING to do with gas dripping out a carb.....you have a carb and fuel delivery issue.....IMHO.....

 

[marty1]

Good rich to lean explanation Birdfanatic and I agree I'm getting plenty of oil - better than being lean on the 2 stroke. I guess if my spark is strong enough to run but not strong enough to completely burn the fuel/oil mix this would result in a wet spark plug (rich condition). I've rebuilt and adjusted the carb, also adjusted the needle (which runs better towards lean).

Electrical: Haven't replaced CDI - they say they either work or don't. I've jumped new wires to replace harness = same spark. I haven't checked the flywheel magnetism yet. All coils, etc. have been tested or replaced.
Carburetor: Could rebuild a second time. Took everything back to stock per manual but could try nonstock jetting but prefer to find problem. Thought fuel pump might be overpressure and forcing fuel past closed float needle but still running rich with open fuel Tee back to tank. Anyway thanks.

 

[BirdFanatic]

Yes i can be the cdi or it can also be the spark plugs them self.I have had some that just either give off really weak sparks or none at all
Another idea:maybe a short in the electrical system

Good rich to lean explanation Birdfanatic and I agree I'm getting plenty of oil - better than being lean on the 2 stroke. I guess if my spark is strong enough to run but not strong enough to completely burn the fuel/oil mix this would result in a wet spark plug (rich condition). I've rebuilt and adjusted the carb, also adjusted the needle (which runs better towards lean).

Electrical: Haven't replaced CDI - they say they either work or don't. I've jumped new wires to replace harness = same spark. I haven't checked the flywheel magnetism yet. All coils, etc. have been tested or replaced.
Carburetor: Could rebuild a second time. Took everything back to stock per manual but could try nonstock jetting but prefer to find problem. Thought fuel pump might be overpressure and forcing fuel past closed float needle but still running rich with open fuel Tee back to tank. Anyway thanks.

 

[BirdFanatic]

You're not wrong per se....but oil to fuel ratio has very little to do whether an engine runs rich or lean.....so to speak....a well running engine will still run very well with a double oil mix....just blow way more smoke....and foul the plug sooner....

But.....ummm....fuel mix doesn't have ANYTHING to do with gas dripping out a carb.....you have a carb and fuel delivery issue.....IMHO.....

He said it pours un burnt oil out of the exhaust oil is much different then gas

 

[Badot]

I'm having a bit of trouble following the original post... but it just sounds like your float needle is leaking, you're aware the float needle is leaking, and you're trying to look everywhere but the float needle for the problem?

 

[marty1]

Badot, Yes I seem to be having two problems fuel dripping out of carb overflow at idle. The odyysey carb is pressurized by fuel pump then to a tee check valve which allows fuel to carb until float needle shuts then excess gas pushes open tee and flows back to gas tank. I've cleaned and replaced float valve and this shuts off when blowing air through. I tried another check tee but same result. I then installed an open tee(no check valve) and of course the dripping stopped. Still ran rich though. I wanted to rule out fuel being able to force past the needle valve causing it to run rich (wet plug). The second problem which might cause the rich condition is although it runs I can hold onto the spark plug while pulling starter without needing to let go. This made me think perhaps the spark is not combusting all fuel/oil causing rich condition. Hope this helps explain things. Thanks, Marty.

 

[BirdFanatic]

hmm sounds like its not doing so well at pressure

Badot, Yes I seem to be having two problems fuel dripping out of carb overflow at idle. The odyysey carb is pressurized by fuel pump then to a tee check valve which allows fuel to carb until float needle shuts then excess gas pushes open tee and flows back to gas tank. I've cleaned and replaced float valve and this shuts off when blowing air through. I tried another check tee but same result. I then installed an open tee(no check valve) and of course the dripping stopped. Still ran rich though. I wanted to rule out fuel being able to force past the needle valve causing it to run rich (wet plug). The second problem which might cause the rich condition is although it runs I can hold onto the spark plug while pulling starter without needing to let go. This made me think perhaps the spark is not combusting all fuel/oil causing rich condition. Hope this helps explain things. Thanks, Marty.

 

[Badot]

Generally speaking, a little gas pressure on your float bowl won't cause a leak at the needle since the area exposed to the inflow would be something on the matter of hundredths of an inch squared. If it's already leaking, however, it will accelerate the leak rate.

I would hook come clear tubing up to your carb inlet and pour gas in -- you should see the gas flowing in and then stop as the bowl fills. Mark the gas level in the line with a marker and make sure no more flows out, or else you have a little leak. If you want to be thorough with this method, I believe gasoline will make about 1 psi at 3 feet of head if you want to test it with pressure.

As far as weak spark -- it's rare to see weak spark causing incomplete combustion, generally it'll run fine until it starts completely missing. I wouldn't worry about it unless you keep having problems after the float leak issue is fixed.

 

[BirdFanatic]

Will a crack in the carb cause a leak and then much more as pressure begins to push fluids out

Generally speaking, a little gas pressure on your float bowl won't cause a leak at the needle since the area exposed to the inflow would be something on the matter of hundredths of an inch squared. If it's already leaking, however, it will accelerate the leak rate.

I would hook come clear tubing up to your carb inlet and pour gas in -- you should see the gas flowing in and then stop as the bowl fills. Mark the gas level in the line with a marker and make sure no more flows out, or else you have a little leak. If you want to be thorough with this method, I believe gasoline will make about 1 psi at 3 feet of head if you want to test it with pressure.

As far as weak spark -- it's rare to see weak spark causing incomplete combustion, generally it'll run fine until it starts completely missing. I wouldn't worry about it unless you keep having problems after the float leak issue is fixed.

 

[Badot]

No reason it couldn't. I've also seen a few instances few and far where it almost looks like aluminum has been eaten by gasoline.

If you can get a leak by hooking the tube up to it as described, see if you can take the float bowl off and push the float up by hand... this will let you see exactly where the gas is getting in from, and you can always try pushing the float a bit harder to see if it changes the flow.

 

[marty1]

Great ideas Badot and Birdfanatic. Badot when you say run a clear hose 3 ft up, pour gas and mark the level. Just to make sure, this test is for allowing any leaks to appear. Also Birdfanatic makes a good point, the overflow hose is probrably the lowest point, so fuel may be dripping from a crack and finding its way down the hose. This gives me something new to try. I put gas in the inlet line (not 3ft tall) with the float bowl off and it worked normally. But I never thought of trying it with the bowl attached where I can see it much better. Good stuff One more question, Could the engine be rattling around enough at idle to allow fuel to slosh down the overflow? Thanks, Marty.

 

[BirdFanatic]

Great ideas Badot and Birdfanatic. Badot when you say run a clear hose 3 ft up, pour gas and mark the level. Just to make sure, this test is for allowing any leaks to appear. Also Birdfanatic makes a good point, the overflow hose is probrably the lowest point, so fuel may be dripping from a crack and finding its way down the hose. This gives me something new to try. I put gas in the inlet line (not 3ft tall) with the float bowl off and it worked normally. But I never thought of trying it with the bowl attached where I can see it much better. Good stuff One more question, Could the engine be rattling around enough at idle to allow fuel to slosh down the overflow? Thanks, Marty.

Theres that and i rmembered one time my father adjusted the float because the metal was bent at an angle it should not have been

 

[marty1]

I've adjusted the float to specs but I'll check just to be sure Birdfanatic. This is a 1983 FL250 Odyssey. I've ordered a new Tee check valve although I suspect Badot is right about fuel pressure not causing a leak at the needle. I also have a 1977 odyssey and that Tee check valve does the same. They are stored at my parents house but I will perform the test as soon as possible and report back. I really appreciate your time and help guys. Thanks, Marty.

 

[marty1]

Badot, I snuck over before work to run your test. The hose was 9 ft so approximately 3 psi. I ran the test with carb still on odyssey. Placed cardboard and wiped everything down to locate any leaks. Yes, you were correct, after marking the level it very slowly began to drop. At first I thought this could be air settling out but a 12 inch drop in the line took around 30 minutes. So are all float valves meant to be completely sealed? I have ordered another rebuild kit and hope to replace Saturday. Are there better or worse float valves? Oh, also I have no idea where the 12" by 1/4" gas in the line went. The carb was completely dry, no fuel out of any overflow lines, cardboard dry - I pulled the slide out thinking I might be filling the engine with fuel but dry as well. Sorry for the long post. Thanks, Marty.
.

 

[marty1]

Oh, one more thing while I'm thinking about it. When I replace the float valve I'd like to test it. My idea was if anyone knows the average psi a vacuum operated fuel pump puts out, I could hook up a pressure gauge to see if the needle holds pressure before installing. Any ideas, test I should perform, let me know I'll try em. Thanks for all the help!