FL250 Oddy drive clutch problem

[jbriley3]

Newly acquired FL250 runs good. My son had it out for the first time yesterday and had a problem. Was climbing a hill too steep; rolled backwards quite a distance before being stopped by branches & bushes. I think the brakes need work.



Anyway, after stopping and digging the buggy out, it wouldn't go. Engine revs but driven pulley doesn't turn. Looks like the drive pulley has "backed out" of the housing and is WAY too wide an opening to grab the belt. Is the remedy simply to screw the pully back together? Is this pssible without special tools?



Help sincerely appreciated. Honda dealers wont even look at Oddys these days.

 

[B man]

BIGHEAD where are you? that guy knows ALOT about honda ody. just wait for him.

 

[B man]

But i may help. so you say the driver isn't engaging? maybe the weight assembly in the driver needs checked on it could have came out of place. thats probably where the problem is.

 

[bighead]

Hmmm. So it is open right now. Do not stick your fingers in there. Lightly tap the clutch side with a rubber hammer. Sometimes they stick open. Or you can lightly pry on the side with a large screw driver. No force to bend anything though. It will pop back with force so keep your fingers out.

It is simply stuck open. I have had it happen a few times to me. Just tap the face lightly. When it pops your know it.


Here is a free PDF Ody manual.

http://www.atlanticpaints.com/Manuals/PDF Files/ODYSSEY FL250.pdf

Now that I think about it. I just used a screw driver. Light pressure and it pop back into place. DO NOT USE ANY REAL FORCE.

 

[bighead]

Okay I just looked at my clutch. I was thinking the stick open. But they stick closed sometimes.

To help you right I will need pics.

If you drill a hole in the frame right across from the clutch bolt. You can then stick a extension thru the hole and use a impact to get the bolt off. Otherwise you have to pull the engine. to get the clutch off. Once you have the nut off you can take the snap ring off and check and see whats going on. You may be abe to get the nut off whit a wrench as well. But to remove the whole clutch with both faces you will have to drill hole or remove engine. The cover should come off pretty easy.


FL250 clutches are pretty bullet proff. Used one on ebay pretty cheap.

Post some pics I may be able to tell whats going on.

Are any of the bolts lose on the clutch outer cover?

 

[jbriley3]

But i may help. so you say the driver isn't engaging? maybe the weight assembly in the driver needs checked on it could have came out of place. thats probably where the problem is.

No, the weight assembly seems to be OK. It moves in a few inches when engine is revved. I think that the weight assy. and the bolt thru it have come backed out. It's way too far spearated from the other clutch half, maybe 4-6 inches too wide. Belt is nowhere close enoungh to engage when revved.

 

[jbriley3]

Hmmm. So it is open right now. Do not stick your fingers in there. Lightly tap the clutch side with a rubber hammer. Sometimes they stick open. Or you can lightly pry on the side with a large screw driver. No force to bend anything though. It will pop back with force so keep your fingers out.

It is simply stuck open. I have had it happen a few times to me. Just tap the face lightly. When it pops your know it.


Here is a free PDF Ody manual.

http://www.atlanticpaints.com/Manuals/PDF Files/ODYSSEY FL250.pdf

Now that I think about it. I just used a screw driver. Light pressure and it pop back into place. DO NOT USE ANY REAL FORCE.

Special thanks for the manual link Bighead. Good diagrams of the parts I'm talking about on Page 8-25. It's the drive pulley that's the problem of course. It's stuck "open". The fixed and moveable faces are maybe 6" too far apart at rest so they don't close nearly enough to grab the belt when revving but do seem to move in as intended.

I'm thinking that this would indicate that the clutch side is not stuck, huh? But I'll try tapping when I get home to the Oddy.

 

[jbriley3]

Okay I just looked at my clutch. I was thinking the stick open. But they stick closed sometimes.

To help you right I will need pics.

If you drill a hole in the frame right across from the clutch bolt. You can then stick a extension thru the hole and use a impact to get the bolt off. Otherwise you have to pull the engine. to get the clutch off. Once you have the nut off you can take the snap ring off and check and see whats going on. You may be abe to get the nut off whit a wrench as well. But to remove the whole clutch with both faces you will have to drill hole or remove engine. The cover should come off pretty easy.


FL250 clutches are pretty bullet proff. Used one on ebay pretty cheap.

Post some pics I may be able to tell whats going on.

Are any of the bolts lose on the clutch outer cover?

I think it's stuck open, maybe not stuck but the bolt thru the moveable side may have backed out of the threads on the fixed side. But I'll try the tapping you describe above when I get home.

If it comes to removing the clutch, looks like I'll need some special tools.

I'll check the bolts on the clutch cover.

Hard to get pictures in that enclosed space but will give it a try.

Thanks so much for the suppoort ideas. You're being a big help bighead!

 

[jbriley3]

Special thanks for the manual link Bighead. Good diagrams of the parts I'm talking about on Page 8-25. It's the drive pulley that's the problem of course. It's stuck "open". The fixed and moveable faces are maybe 6" too far apart at rest so they don't close nearly enough to grab the belt when revving but do seem to move in as intended.

I'm thinking that this would indicate that the clutch side is not stuck, huh? But I'll try tapping when I get home to the Oddy.

Stuck open too much. Some pictures attached. Tried tapping, pulling the two halves together, wrench on bolt turn clockwise (whole assembly wants to turn). Nothing worked yet.

 

[jbriley3]

Drive puley

Stuck open too much. Some pictures attached. Tried tapping, pulling the two halves together, wrench on bolt turn clockwise (whole assembly wants to turn). Nothing worked yet.

I guess I'm going to have to take the pulley off as bighead describes. Drill a hole in the frame. However, looks like I'll need a couple of tools, a puller (available on Ebay) and a tool to hold the pulley while taking it off (haven't found this anywhere).

Once I get it off, don't know what i'm looking for. Continued help will be really appreciated; don't really know what I'm doing as you can tell.

 

[redsox985]

I don't really know what to do here, but BigHead probably does. He's the only one really experienced with the Ody's. Before you buy a puller, you might be able to rent one from a hardware/auto parts/equipment place and save money on something you won't use again for a long time.

 

[bighead]

Well your primary looks fine to me. If it is stuck then it is stuck open.

You do not need a puller to get the outer half of the clutch off. Just the stationary face thats against the engine. Take the bolt out and snap ring out and the outer face should slide right off. It's the other half you need to use a puller on.

Also you can get a large grade 8 bolt that fits the threads. Tilt the ody on it's side and fill the clutrch hole with water or grease. Put teflon tape on the bolt threads. USe a impact on the bolt. The water or grease will will act like a hydrolic pump when you tighten the bolt. The clutch will pop right off from the force. This way you just buy a grade 8 bolt and not a $25 puller. You may have fill a few times untill you get a good seal and full of water orrease. Water works okay but grease is better. If this does not work then take a USA made punch and an extension to your grade 8 bolt. Then drop the punch down the hole. Then tighten your grade 8 bolt onto the punch. This should also pop the face off. Note that I nhade clutches that I could not get off with a normal bought puller. The water or grease worked like butter everytime I tried it.

Ya take the cover off and lube that bushing that the faces slide on. Should be an east fix. I think when you were rolling backwards the clutch was forced open and got stuck.

Just make a tool that can hold the clutch. I use a bar with two bolts welded onto it that stick into the clutch holes. You will have to drill a hole in the frame or take the motor out to use a impact. No need to drill the frame or impact if you just take out the outer face.

Worse case just get a new clutch for about $75 or so on ebay. Chances are the fix is simple and just stuck or binding. Your clutch is in the normal open possition in the pics. This is how it should look when not running. So I am saying that it is stuck in the normal possition. If the bolt backed out then chances are it is just binding somehow on the stationary faces shaft and not letting it close and grabing the belt when you add RPM's.

Is the outer face flush with the outside cover? Can you see any gaps? If so that where it is binding.

I am not to schooled on the Ody clutches. All mine have work perfect with just a few case of them sticking closed. Not open

 

[bighead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pptnRGTH_XA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJnVQdK9mp8

 

[B man]

ummm its electric it doesn't need a clutch?

 

[wall gator]

waste of tav! Elrectric 100% torque at the start.

 

[jbriley3]

Wow! Comprehensive information!

Well your primary looks fine to me. If it is stuck then it is stuck open.

You do not need a puller to get the outer half of the clutch off. Just the stationary face thats against the engine. Take the bolt out and snap ring out and the outer face should slide right off. It's the other half you need to use a puller on.

Also you can get a large grade 8 bolt that fits the threads. Tilt the ody on it's side and fill the clutrch hole with water or grease. Put teflon tape on the bolt threads. USe a impact on the bolt. The water or grease will will act like a hydrolic pump when you tighten the bolt. The clutch will pop right off from the force. This way you just buy a grade 8 bolt and not a $25 puller. You may have fill a few times untill you get a good seal and full of water orrease. Water works okay but grease is better. If this does not work then take a USA made punch and an extension to your grade 8 bolt. Then drop the punch down the hole. Then tighten your grade 8 bolt onto the punch. This should also pop the face off. Note that I nhade clutches that I could not get off with a normal bought puller. The water or grease worked like butter everytime I tried it.

Ya take the cover off and lube that bushing that the faces slide on. Should be an east fix. I think when you were rolling backwards the clutch was forced open and got stuck.

Just make a tool that can hold the clutch. I use a bar with two bolts welded onto it that stick into the clutch holes. You will have to drill a hole in the frame or take the motor out to use a impact. No need to drill the frame or impact if you just take out the outer face.

Worse case just get a new clutch for about $75 or so on ebay. Chances are the fix is simple and just stuck or binding. Your clutch is in the normal open possition in the pics. This is how it should look when not running. So I am saying that it is stuck in the normal possition. If the bolt backed out then chances are it is just binding somehow on the stationary faces shaft and not letting it close and grabing the belt when you add RPM's.

Is the outer face flush with the outside cover? Can you see any gaps? If so that where it is binding.

I am not to schooled on the Ody clutches. All mine have work perfect with just a few case of them sticking closed. Not open

Can't tell you how much I appreciate the information bighead! Thanks so much. I was feeling pretty confused about this problem.

I think it's stuck open like you said. I plan to remove the outer half as suggested and see if I can get some results there.


But. you kindly provided much more useful information I can use if I decide to replace the entire unit.

I'll get back to you in a few days. Thanks again.

 

[jbriley3]

Well your primary looks fine to me. If it is stuck then it is stuck open.

You do not need a puller to get the outer half of the clutch off. Just the stationary face thats against the engine. Take the bolt out and snap ring out and the outer face should slide right off. It's the other half you need to use a puller on.

Also you can get a large grade 8 bolt that fits the threads. Tilt the ody on it's side and fill the clutrch hole with water or grease. Put teflon tape on the bolt threads. USe a impact on the bolt. The water or grease will will act like a hydrolic pump when you tighten the bolt. The clutch will pop right off from the force. This way you just buy a grade 8 bolt and not a $25 puller. You may have fill a few times untill you get a good seal and full of water orrease. Water works okay but grease is better. If this does not work then take a USA made punch and an extension to your grade 8 bolt. Then drop the punch down the hole. Then tighten your grade 8 bolt onto the punch. This should also pop the face off. Note that I nhade clutches that I could not get off with a normal bought puller. The water or grease worked like butter everytime I tried it.

Ya take the cover off and lube that bushing that the faces slide on. Should be an east fix. I think when you were rolling backwards the clutch was forced open and got stuck.

Just make a tool that can hold the clutch. I use a bar with two bolts welded onto it that stick into the clutch holes. You will have to drill a hole in the frame or take the motor out to use a impact. No need to drill the frame or impact if you just take out the outer face.

Worse case just get a new clutch for about $75 or so on ebay. Chances are the fix is simple and just stuck or binding. Your clutch is in the normal open possition in the pics. This is how it should look when not running. So I am saying that it is stuck in the normal possition. If the bolt backed out then chances are it is just binding somehow on the stationary faces shaft and not letting it close and grabing the belt when you add RPM's.

Is the outer face flush with the outside cover? Can you see any gaps? If so that where it is binding.

I am not to schooled on the Ody clutches. All mine have work perfect with just a few case of them sticking closed. Not open

Thanks again bighead. I'm going to start by making a makeshift tool to hold the clutch. I'll then use that to hold the clutch while I try to thread it in, in case my problem is simply that the bolt backed out a little. What size socket will use on the bolt? It seems to be ~17mm. I imagine I'll want a 6 point socket.

Failing that, I'll use your advice to get the clutch pulled. BTW, is the bolt SAE, or metric? Being a Jaopanese buggy, I expected a metric. But I see you calling for a 7/8" 14 to pull the clutch. Am I missing something?

 

[jbriley3]

Salsbury clutch

The Salsbury, after research, was made in the USA! SAE bolts. Out of business. Comet had bought them. Comet too is out of business.

Got the bolt removed from the clutch. Removed the cover. Didn't see anything broken but it seems to be "stuck". No amount of tapping unstuck it.

Bought an Ebay clutch that should be here this week. Also ordered a puller. A bolt of the size needed to pull was near impossible to find. Even Fastenal would have to order it. The clutch threads look good, not rusty as far as I can tell. Maybe I'm on my way to resolving this problem. Thanks for the information. Will update this after more struggling.

This process is pretty new to me. I've been riding and tinkering with motorcycles for more years that I want to tell you. Never got into any maintenance like this. i'd always find a mechanic to do the difficllt work. Can't find one for the OddY!!!

So, thank all of you for the help you've provided. I couldn't have done it without you!

 

[bighead]

You will need a impact to remove the clutch. Also grease the threads on the puller. Sometimes they still will not pop off. If this is the case you will have to do this.

Take the motor out or drill hole in frame. Tilt the ody on its side. Fill the hole in the clutch with water. Put teflon tape on the threads of the puller. Use impact at full force. The hydrolic pressure will pop the clutch off.

I had them come off easy. And I had others that need to add water or grease into the hole. With water they always pop right off. notice how close the clutch is to the fins on the head. When puting new clutch on make sure it is the same. Good way to till if your clutch is on all the way.

Now once you have your new clutch on you have to tighten and torque the bolt down. But how do you hold the engine from spinning while you tighten the bolt? It's a tappered shaft so holding the clutch does no good.

I take the plug out and drop some cloth rope down the plug hole. I rotate the engine utill it piston smashes tight on the rope. I then tighten the bolt. Then slightly rotate engine backwards and pull rope out.

Another way is to pull the pull start cover. Stick large screw driver in the pull starter ring grabber thing. Then tighten. I would do it this way if I was you.

Just so you know. I have popped clutches off with grease just using a normal bolt. The bolt was short and did not even touch the shaft. The hydro pressure was all it needed. Nothing is stronger force than hydro. it works everytime. Water is the same way but little harder to get right. Grease works great but take a few times to get all the air pockets out. But it makes a mess. Mess does not matter to me as long as it comes off. LOL, Put a zirk grease fitting into small peace of metal. Hold that over the clutch while your wifes pumps the greas gun. Tighten bolt then refill with grease. Then go to town with a good impact.

I seen online threads where the puller bent before the clutch would pop off. They then used grease and it poped right off. I guess I am saying do not be shocked if it does not pop right off. I have one in my garage right now that will not pop off with puller. I need to use grease or water.

I am not a clutch guy by no means. I do know how to get them off. But perhaps if you post pics of the clutch when you get it off. I or others can spot something.

Always use grease on the puller. They will last longer. If useing grease or water you need teflon or it will leak out. Look at the threads that the puller has to go into. They need to be cleaned. All I have seen had dirty threads that effect the puller performance. Small wire brush and some air works well.


I got my bolt at Ace hardware. Once you get your puller you will see why people buy a bolt along with a cut down punch. But hey I bought one as well. Good luck friend.