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Fan belts and pully ratios....HELP anybody

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Rail rider

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I'm building a railkart. It's a go cart for train tracks. I don't want to use a centrifugal clutch. But, pulleys and a belt. My engine is a predator 3 h.p. (3800 rpms)my wheels are 8" I want to putt along at half throttle at about 15 mph. I will be on an abandoned track and derailments are an issue. Those spots will be marked with orange fluorescent paint. But after I run up and Mark the bad sections of tracks. After i turn around, I want to go as fast as possible on the good sections. All help appreciated thank you. If you're curious go to you tube and enter. gokarts on train tracks.:useless:
 

itsid

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I'll just say no...

with only 3hp and although the wheels are small, you will not get anywhere near your desired speed.

Here's why:
let's assume your a teen with say 100lbs
and you want to go 30mph;
your ratio for a 3hp engine and 8" wheels would need to be around 3:1
to not instantly burn the belts due to lack of torque
the complete pack of kart and you must not weigh more than 57 lbs;
so you would have to build a kart with negative weight (helium???)

let's just stick with no...

Okay, let's asume you are okay with a kart that goes slower than that.
say 20mph..
Again that kart should have a ratio of 4.5:1 to hit the speed..
your kart with you in it must not weigh more than 127lbs... the engine weighs in at 22lbs
leaves 5lbs for chassis and wheels, seat and stuff...

Again we can rule that out, right?!

Okay, even slower... 15mph TOPSPEED (far from what you want I guess)
the gear ratio to hit that would be 6:1
and the kart must not weigh more than 227 lbs
minus 22lbs for the engine, and 100 for yourself.. that leaves you with 105 to work with.. finally...

BUT that rear pulley would have to be 6 times the diameter of the engine shaft pulley!
say you find a 1.5" engine pulley (I doubt it) that axle pulley is 9" in diameter..
bigger than your wheels!

So you need jackshafts to get there, and belts on pulleys lose power (slip)...
one about 10-15%.. another one again 10-15% of whatever remains etc.pp.
... and you'll start over again because you're only left with 2.5 of the 3hp..
increasing the ratio to 6.6:1 (~13mph) or reducing the weight to 189 lbs (and that's really difficult I assume...)

As I said...NO!

get yourself a bigger engine! (6.5hp predator costs the same as the 3hp one)

'sid
 

Rail rider

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Sid, thanks. Unfortunately I'm probably older then you.(50) and nowhere near a hundred pounds. I noticed the bigger engine was 20.00 more. I'm trying to throw this together on the cheap. ( For a you tube bragging right.) I don't get the ratio thing . but in this build the pulley is allowed to be up to 10 inches mounted to 8" wheels. The pully would simply act as the wheels track flange. So a 2 inch with a 10in would be 5to1. I don't need much torque I don't mind pushing it up to speed and hoping on .(tobagon style) I realise 1 to 1 would be fast. 10 to 1 would climb a tree. I just don't want to spend tons on pulleys until I work it out . thanks for your explanation.
 

itsid

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yeah without a coupon it's twenty bucks more alright..
BUT, just think of an additional belt and two additional pulleys to buy
not to mention the two additional pillow blocks, the jackshaft itself, the keys... that quickly add up to way above 20 bucks, right?

get the 212 at least ;)

the ratio thing is quite easy actually..
your engines turns 3800 rpms at max, and the ratio reduces that rotation to the rear axle;
by the given factor (6:1 for example means the axle and thus the wheels rotate 633.33 times per minute)
The circumference of the wheels now let you determine the maximum speed;
which is exactly what most "cheap" [as in quickly thrown together] calculators will give let you know.

Two more things need to be considered though, to get a good estimate:
1) the overall weight!
engines produce a rather low amount of torque (compared to your legs for example)
that's why you NEED gear reduction since the torque increases by the same amount the rpm decreases (six times the engine torque in our 6:1 ratio example)
and you need torque to move mass.
2) wheel diameter is part of the ratio
Most people forget that the whole torque dilemma doesn't stop at the axle, instead it stops where the rubber meets the road; everything rotating is basically part of your torque equation.

Putting it all together, it looks quite complicated at first (but is in fact easy)

All you need to know is that you need a certain amount of force to move a mass, multiply that by the wheel radius to know the minimum amount of torque needed;
and then divide by the engines max torque (in the documents) to know the minimum gear ratio you could get away with.

and having that ratio, putting it in the cheapo calc I talked about earlier will tell you the speed you'll achieve.

Or, if you're lazy.. get a decent calculator ;)
(mine for example; at kartcalc.net [free to use, no ads!])

that's basically what I used to get the numbers above (that's quicker than doing it by hand, even for me :D)

'sid
 

chancer

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Just my 2 cents, (Sid already hit a few bucks in Knowledge). LOL

I have a small kart eith the 3hp predator. At 6:1 with 13" tires it would barely get going.
160 pounds total with rider.
The 3hp just does not have alot of torque.
I ended up 10 to 1 ratio. and it works good.
 

landuse

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OK guys. Thanks for the help. I guess I can just save the recipt for the pulley and take em back after IV tesed them. Añy of your guys ever use a can saw engine ?

I assume you mean chain saw engine. They have been used in the past, but those are the really big ones. Generally they are not used because of the difficulty of attaching usable clutches to them and their weakness.
 
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