Engine/TAV decision

[ONE-EYE]

So I'm trying to decide on an engine and TAV to go onto my 3203 yerf dog and I'm a bit worried about the weight and the fact that we live on a large hill. The original was a 6.5 hp tecumseh and I had to floor it with my daughter and I in it to get up the hill (I weigh over 200lbs and my daughter is about 50lbs). My rear tires measure 20x10-8 and the kart itself is quite large for what it is. I really think I'm going to need the torque to pull everything but I don't want to do any internal engine work if possible or welding. I'd like to try and keep the cost for both the engine and TAV around $500 or less as well if possible. I found a Tillotson 212 and a Juggernaut TAV that will meet my budget but do you guys think this will work? The Tilly seems like it already has a bit better parts in it internally and is said to come out with 9-10 hp stock. I'm just wondering if this will work or if there are better options out there. Thanks for the advice guys. It's greatly appreciated!

 

[madprofessor]

Personal preference, but I'd rather have low end torque in hand already, than to try to make that torque by adding on parts. I'd also rather be driving a kart because I turned the key, than sitting home because my bad back on that day says don't yank on a pullrope. These two preferences of mine mean one thing in your $500 price range...............
$400 for a Harbor Freight 420cc engine with electric start and 13hp. right out of the box. Another $100 for a battery and a clutch gets it done.
Now everyone else and myself included will tell you there should be a 40 series on that 420cc, a what'd you call it?..............oh yeah, a TAV. Or a TC. Or a CVT. All the same thing, should be on that 420cc, but you don't have to do it right away to get up that hill with 13 hp.
13 HP (420cc) OHV Horizontal Shaft Gas Engine, EPA (harborfreight.com)

 

[panchothedog]

The electric start is cool but I guess it depends on what you want to spend your money on. The tilly with a 30 series torque converter will get the job done just fine. If you don't have a very modified engine you are wasting your money with the juggernaut, it only helps on the top end at very high RPM. A complete good quality torque converter can be purchased from OMB warehouse or Go Power Sports for around $100 and it includes the driver clutch so no need to purchase the juggernaut. I weigh 220 and both of my grandsons are in the
155 lb range and while we don't make a habit of riding duel we have been in the karts together on many occasions and even then they are still quite snappy
and strong on acceleration with 375 lbs on board. We have had breakdowns
in the desert where we ride and the yerf-dog with a 196 cc clone engine and a torque converter as described above has pulled one of the other karts 4-5 miles back to our campsite. Two karts, two good sized teenage boys, maybe
850 to 900 lbs down a dirt road and I mean with no problem. The kart was
probably used for another 3 to 4 hours that day.

 

[Denny]

Th jaggernaut is a waste of money. I have heard complaints about them. Now with that out of the way if it was me I would go HF Predator 420 and 40 series with a jack shaft. Why overwork a underpowered engine and stress a barely strong enough cvt on big hills with big tires? The kids will probably be riding it for the next 10 years. In my opinion use the proper hammer for the size nail you have to pound in. If you use a small hammer on a rail road spike you will never get it pounded in. But if you use the proper sized sledge hammer the job goes much easier. Bonus points on the electric start.

 

[USAMAC]

Now with that out of the way if it was me I would go HF Predator 420 and 40 series with a jack shaft.

Did GPS buy up all the 420cc Hemi's? Can't find them on HF.com, maybe they never sold it and GPS contracted direct? Either way, it's too bad because I hear the HEMI have even more torque per HP stock.

Some great suggestions here for sure! Just to throw a wrench in the conversation, what about going with a clone of the clone 420cc gas motor for $290 from eBay (with free shipping), then get yourself a stage one kit from GPS for $40 and a header from GPS for another $35. You get to both replace with nearly triple the HP, easy modifications and you've only spent $365 for motor parts. Could get the Jugg-a-verter if you wanted and be within budget, but sounds like a 40 series would do you more than good enough and if it's $100 you're now $40 under budget!

 

[ONE-EYE]

So I've been having some trouble finding a 420cc predator engine. I also have some concerns. 1) the engine with electric start is going to run around $400 but then the torque converter will be around $200 and more than likely require me to get another mounted jackshaft that'll be another $50 ($650 total) 2) the weight. I'd be going from an engine that weighs between 35-40lbs to one that weighs between 75-80lbs and I don't know if my frame can handle it. 3) the bolt pattern on my engine mounting plate. Would it be able to bolt up using the same holes? Require welding? I don't have a welder...I would like to have the extra torque but I just really don't want to spend that kind of money on a yard toy. If I must tho, is it even a possibility without too much trouble or having to hire a welder?

 

[madprofessor]

Look at page 22 on each of these pdf's for the bolt hole measurements of the Predator 212 and 420................
69730.pdf (harborfreight.com) ..................... 60340.pdf (harborfreight.com) ...................... and you can get the 40 series TC for a little less.....................
40 Series 1" Driver 5/8" Driven Torque Converter Clutch Pulley Kit for Go Kart 6941677558729 | eBay

 

[USAMAC]

So I've been having some trouble finding a 420cc predator engine. I also have some concerns.

You may be apprehensive of going with eBay to order stuff, but I gotta bring it back up. If for no other reason than the availability factor. Not to mention you would be under budget!

Check this out, IF you go with the links I suggested before and the TC kit @madprofessor referenced and finally you add this Electric Starter kit from eBay, you would pay $404. That is free shipping with ebay, but GPS I know will have some shipping fees.

I've been in the small electronics repair/sale industry for nearly a decade now and I can tell you eBay is far more reliable than people give it credit for. The trick, is you just gotta be patient. If you get scammed (because it does happen, but a lot less often these days) then eBay and PayPal will both come to your defense.. Another point on it, it's all about the Seller Ratings. Businesses/sellers work really hard on obtaining those higher ratings and are not willing to risk screwing people around just to get a bad rating/review! The rule of thumb and why I would not want to be a vendor on ebay, they almost always go to the buyer's defense!

 

[madprofessor]

eBay and PayPal will both come to your defense..

Very good point about ebay, they usually have everything you're looking for, and you are completely protected from any possible scam artists, and there aren't many scammers out there willing to try to slip by.
My only bad experience was on a pair of blue 17" coilover shocks they were selling under at least half a dozen different names at an extremely good price to suck you in. They didn't have them in stock to sell, they were just selling them and then refunding the money under the reason code of being out of stock. That pumped up their sales volume to a level where ebay gives them a better vendor cost rate for higher sales. All was resolved and the scammers turned over to ebay for disposition, and I have a beautiful pair of blue 17" coilovers.
The more important point usamac made was..........................

PayPal will both come to your defense..

I only use PayPal everywhere on the internet (except Amazon, they don't accept PayPal). Also, I only use my debit card number that I've chosen to be set up with PayPal as my form of payment for everything I buy with PayPal, as opposed to choosing the debit card's bank account to be directly linked to PayPal as my form of payment. That adds the protection of my own bank to make good on any problems with the debit card. This is all VERY GOOD ADVICE! You can have triple protection (1): ebay, (2): PayPal, (3): your bank.