Electric tracked mini Tank project

travbowls

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Hey everyone, I'm a newb here, but not a newb to building stuff. I'll jump straight into my questions, and would SO thankful for any help. I built a 1/4 scale (a little bigger in some dimensions) Sherman Tank for the kiddo's.
I'm currently trying to decide on batteries. I'd love to use golf cart 6v's, but don't have $1000 to throw at this. I'd prefer to start with say, a $200 option. I'm considering:
-(2) china made Li-Ion 48v 12ah, for about $100 each.
-(4 or 8) PowerWheels style SLA batteries, say like 12v 18AH each.
- 4 normal Deep cycle batteries, at like $70 each if I can find a deal.

Usually people ask questions with not enough info, so excuse me if this is too much. History of the project:

It started with a couple 24v motors from a mobility scooter, with 1 speed controller that I spliced between to add my own reverse, and separate controls for each side of the tank using 24v HVAC relays. This setup was pretty unreliable (popping breaker and weird controls) and underpowered. I was going to go with a gas engine, but then you need a transmission, hard to start for kids, exhaust/fuel fumes in an enclosed hull, etc etc.

I now have (2) 48v 1000w motors (MY1020), 1 for each side. And each has it's own speed controller with reverse, and throttle pedal. I'm making levers which actuate the pedal either way (F or R), but pushes a little button when going in reverse to tell the controller that side is in reverse. There is a 3/4" jackshaft for each side with the following gearing:
Motor: 11t to 44t jackshaft IN.
Jackshaft OUT 18 tooth, to 38 tooth on the track drive sprockets. For about 8:1 reduction. The track drive sprockets are 5.5", but effectively 9" OD with the track wrapped around them.

My goal with this tank is to make it through a parade route, and play around in the snow, gravel pit, or sand. Speed in NOT really a factor. 2-7 mph is fine.




I will add some more pics when I can.
Thanks for having me
 
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Quinc

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Wow! You win at Dadding! Post some video! And hook up a big nerf gun in for the cannon! :)

And what did those tracks come off of? You need to post more pics of that build for us to drool over!

For batteries the 12v 22ah should be enough to get you a solid 20min of ride time. If you need more you can add 12v 12ah or more 18-22ah batteries. Or bite the bullet and go with Nissan leaf cells 48v 60ah pack would probably run you around 300$. Another option would be a few 56v 4-7.5ah cordless tool battery packs. that you could swap in and out as needed or run in parallel. Clearance section at homedepot and lowes is good for picking those up cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4PK-NEW-12...981395?hash=item287b0a8f13:g:VrYAAOSw-6BcpmDr
 

travbowls

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Cool, thanks. Those 22ah ones seem like the way to go I'd say. I could start with 4, then add 4 more as I get closer to parade time. They are what, 13lbs each, so only 100 lbs for 8, not bad.

I have some video, but like I say, it was painfully slow, haha. Here's a little montage of the build, the tracks are made of conveyor belt, 3/4" Uhmw, and lots of time on the table saw, haha.
https://youtu.be/KLk46Z1maZA

I'm still curious why no one seems to use those 48v li-ion batteries. Is there something with the power delivery or initial amps/load or something? Seems like mobility Scooters, go karts, etc all still use the SLA's.

Thanks again for any help. I'm glad there seems to be some serious experts on here with the know-how of these motors and controllers, etc.
 

landuse

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Welcome to the forum!!! Awesome build. I have no experience with electrics so i cannot help you on that side. I will just be drooling over the rest of the build though :D
 

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travbowls

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Thanks again for the input. I went ahead and ordered (4) 12v 22ah Mighty Max batteries. I figure I can always add 4 more before the next parade if I need more run time.
I also went over to my neighbors house and we made a new, much prettier motor mounts plate on his plasma table, with slotted holes for chain tightness adjustment.
 

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travbowls

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I'm about to tackle the wiring, batteries arrive any day. One question I have, is about the fuses.
The speed controller documentation said Maximum current 40 Amps. I have seen some discussion on 30a vs 40a fuses, I got both, and assume I'd start with the 30's.

But the main question I have, is, when using a single battery pack, to power both speed controllers and motors, I assume it's better to have a separate fuse before each controller? Or does it not matter? Also, are fuses needed anywhere else?

Thanks again
 

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itsid

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Well two fuses one per controller.
With a decently made controller the 30A should be okay for a kid's toy vehicle.
In case the controller isn't ramping on startup however a higher value and/or slow blow fuse is recommended. maybe even something like 45A may be needed.

Reason: if everything is cold and tight and you throttle up,
there might be a peak current rushing through
the instant the MosFets are switching.
that peak can exceed the maximum controller rating.

A 40A slow blow fuse should still be okay (it might be able to deal with the short peak)
but it's hard to tell for sure, so in case it's not don't worry too much,
just get a slightly higher value and try again.. only if you exceed say 60A per controller I would search for shorts and such.

Thinking about it, a resettable fusebox might be your best bet perhaps
as it doubles as a safety disconnect for storage/charging and so on.

'sid
 

travbowls

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Mini Sherman Tank 48v - update!

Hey guys, I finished wiring on the tank, and everything is working great. The Mighty Max batteries seem great so far. I appreciate all the tips and help.
The 48v motors are awesome, plenty of power and speed (a good 7+ mph) and the speed controllers, with reverse, work flawlessly with my throttle box that flips the switch when you pull a stick to reverse.

Video:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CC1tnbLF7Mc/?igshid=lji6luy5b4oe

The previous thread closed, but I also used this tip, thanks itsid, working great, and agree its handy for charging.
"Thinking about it, a resettable fusebox might be your best bet perhaps
as it doubles as a safety disconnect for storage/charging and so on."
 

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travbowls

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Thanks again sid.
And ya, it's been a long time in the making, nice to see it finally perform. Taking it to some sand dunes soon!

A few little things I still need to finish are:
-3 speed switch that the controller has a plug for (I guess it's on medium now?), so I can set it based on who's driving it, and what terrain.
- a master brake pedal, currently you can use the throttle sticks in the opposite direction to stop, but I think a master brake pedal will be more intuitive for kids in a panic, haha. And again, there's an easy unused input for braking on the controller.
-lots of work for the main gun.
-I may buy another set of 4 batteries, and wire a 2nd, backup battery pack, I can swap to with a throw switch. So if the batteries die in a parade, or precarious position, it can have a nice long reserve power to get back.
 

travbowls

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I was thinking, before I go in any parades, or long distance usage, I want to install a 2nd pack of (4) Mighty Max batteries to double my range, and so I'd have a big reserve of power to get back as far as I have driven the tank, if the first pack runs outta juice. Or at least be able to drive it onto a trailer, get out of a jam, etc. I could also run lights, an air compressor (for the cannon), and other peripherals off the 2nd pack, not using power from the main pack.

I'd prefer a quick switch that I could do, and was looking at something like this. I'd like something that both the power, and ground go through, so it totally switches over. Is something like this the best option? Or just do a straight cut off switch for each pack, then turn the dead one off, and the fresh one on to switch over?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-24V-...489989?hash=item3b3b089a45:g:bcEAAOSwsQJdqsiO

Thanks, any tips are appreciated.
 

EpsilonZero

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I was thinking, before I go in any parades, or long distance usage, I want to install a 2nd pack of (4) Mighty Max batteries to double my range, and so I'd have a big reserve of power to get back as far as I have driven the tank, if the first pack runs outta juice. Or at least be able to drive it onto a trailer, get out of a jam, etc. I could also run lights, an air compressor (for the cannon), and other peripherals off the 2nd pack, not using power from the main pack.

I'd prefer a quick switch that I could do, and was looking at something like this. I'd like something that both the power, and ground go through, so it totally switches over. Is something like this the best option? Or just do a straight cut off switch for each pack, then turn the dead one off, and the fresh one on to switch over?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-24V-...489989?hash=item3b3b089a45:g:bcEAAOSwsQJdqsiO

Thanks, any tips are appreciated.

Why not run the banks in parallel so you get less voltage drop and more efficient use of the batteries?
 

itsid

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I'm all for a physical disconnect tbh
and I wouldn't even run the lights and accessories off the secondary batpack tbh.

simply because it's good to have a power reserve with a flashing warning light
(well kinda ;))
and you need to DO something being fully aware of the fact that you now have almost exactly the amount of juice to get back to where you started ;)

with a parallel pack (which indeed is easier on the batteries and thus tickles that bit of additional use out of each cell)
you again only get to know the exact state when the batpack is about to give up.
and you might end up stranded wherever you are.
(no big deal for a backyard fun project... but midst parade... meh.. I'm not sure that's your best option tbh)

I would leave the grounds connected either, it won't harm if you're very carefull with connecting the fresh pack AFTER disconnecting the empty first.

BUT if you do not use a three position high amperage switch to do so
(which indeed is possible and even favourable of course)
you might connect the fresh one in parallel to the empty one by mistake..
and then you immediately loose some amount of power
(it trying to recharge it's depleted brother)

in any case be aware that with a shared ground,
the spare batpack's positive pole is as dangerous as the active one.

'sid
 

EpsilonZero

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with a parallel pack (which indeed is easier on the batteries and thus tickles that bit of additional use out of each cell)
you again only get to know the exact state when the batpack is about to give up.
and you might end up stranded wherever you are.

It is so cheap and easy to monitor your battery status, I don't know why anyone would skip that. I have had good experiences with using a configurable digital voltmeter (mine is a DROK) with my SLA-powered kart. It even displays a graphic to show you how much power is left. Just keeping track of the voltage of lead acid batteries seems pretty effective, since it drops as they are used up. I use a coulombmeter that tracks actual energy usage for my lithium powered kart since they remain around nominal voltage basically until depleted.

Personally, I'd run the banks parallel with a physical cutoff (besides yanking the battery leads) and use a step-down transformer to run the 12v accessories. That way you'd get your cutoff, run your motors and accessories efficiently, ensure even wear on all the batteries, and simplify charging.
 

travbowls

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Ok, hmm, lots to think about. It may just be easier to have one more 12v battery to run the lights, a little motor to raise/lower the cannon barrel, etc.

I was wondering what would be better for longer running time, 8 batteries all running together with 2 parallel sets of 4 in series... Vs running down a 4-pack, switching, and running down another 4-pack.
Last parade I did years ago when it was underpowered and barely worked, I have a trailer with a rolling ramp drive in front of the tank, and would just drive off and on as needed. So that is also an option if I start to worry about range.
And I agree some type of battery meter would not hurt.
 
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