Drifting Kart think tank

[Spawn]

Guys I want to build a drifting kart in the near future and want to get all my ducks in a row before forking out hard earned cash.

My thinking so far:
I'm thinking of using a shifter engine from a bike. 4stroke preferred, 400cc or bigger.
Must be watercooled as airflow will be restricted due to sideways action.
Chassis will be longer than the normal square layout of racing karts, to be more predictable when the rear end is out.
I'm thinking discs front and maybe rear to help get cart sideways.
Slicks front for grip
Rear I have no idea as you need very little grip, maybe. Front threaded tyre from tractor mower?
Chain drive.
First attempt will be solid suspension, but maybe thinking adjustable monoshock front suspension later with dual shock rear, that hinges on the main frame just behind driver seat. Any and all ideas are welcome an input on pros and cons of the different setups.

 

[Datsun]

I'm also building a drift kart, you have the right idea with the long wheelbase idea. The normal racing kart lay out will still get sideways easy enough. But with a lwb kart it will be easier to keep it there.

As for the rear end, if you have a 15+ hp you will be able to get slicks smoking. I wouldn't bother stuffing around with other tyres. If you do have a problem with them you could always put pvc over the tyres. Like people do with huffy sliders.

Suspension can be a pain in the ***, if you're using a racing kart chassis I wouldn't bother modifying it to have suspension.

When you have your engine, if it's 400cc + depending if it is a single cylinder or parallel twin or inline 4. You might want to have a think about how you are going to mount it, as putting a lot of weight on one side of the kart will affect how it turns. You might be better stretching the chassis and mounting it behind the seat.

As for brakes, it would be a good idea to have front discs as well due to the fact of big engine little kart... But they will not affect how it drifts.

Do you already have a chassis or are you planning on making one? Best of luck.

 

[Spawn]

I don't have a chassis. Thinking of building one from scratch. Maybe make the frame a two piece that slides one into the other so as to extend the frame with very little hassle to find the best setup. I was thinking of mounting the motor behind the seat to get the best weight distribution. I'm quite tall 1,87m 6ft2 I think and weigh about 120kg.

 

[OzFab]

Just to be clear, you guys want something like this?

 

[voided]

Kart tires in the 10" size are used on drift trikes to help loose traction.. Having just built a shifter cart for drift. Once the gear ratios are right there's not much traction if you get used to it.. I can clutch mine in second and get it sliding with the right method..

Going longer with a heavy motor and not wider kinda scares me after riding mine. My kart is set up wide and that thing moves.. Second and third are my driving gears for parking lots and first just spins..

 

[Spawn]

Thanks Fabroman, that's about it yes... Voided please share your info if you don't mind. Chassis lenght and width, what motor are you running? Size tyres? Gear ratios etc?

 

[OzFab]

Sorry guys, I'm out. That thing of greengoblins, albeit, well constructed, is completely nuts & I can't condone the production of such a dangerous machine...

 

[Tig]

I'm curious. Why a 4 stroke?

You can get a 2 stroke and some 4 strokers, bolt it in the factory location and go. I've seen motors as small as 85cc smokem up on command and with ease. They make motor mounts for anything up to 500cc. Boom done. No mods besides drivetrain alignment (which the motor mount will solve a lot of that) and figuring out your shifter/clutch locations.
Check here ----> http://www.qrckarts.com/store/index.cfm/product/70/engine-mount.cfm

Even if you desire to stretch it, a solid 2 smoker would be plenty. A nice compact package that will tear it up and hang with the best of them.
I'd look for a chassis and modify it instead of building one from scratch, it'll cost less and you have a decent foundation to work with.

I highly doubt this kart will be used specifically for drifting only. You will need front brakes, there's no if ands or buts about that.

As for tires. It doesn't matter what you put on it, slicks, ice studded tires or monster truck tires. If you bolt a bike motor on it, they will spin, period.

I like this kind of stuff, though I do agree with fabroman, it is completely nuts.
I'm in for this one

 

[voided]

I'm using a kx125 with a 26 rear and 18 front and a very short chain and 11" tires out back.. Its set up with a a clutch handle that rotates with the steering so its always grab able and a shifter handle a inch from the steering wheel..

Its nothing crazy different, pretty much set up like a normal shifter kart with a radiator that keeps the motor super cool compared to the stock on since its 3 times the size..

To start it, is alil hassle if I'm by myself but its still doable.. My motor is so far back that I couldn't use the kickstarter.. So I put the back on jack stands and put a rope around the tire and pull while the motor is in third gear.. It starts first pull every time..

My first motor mount idea worked and wouldn't of been a problem if a kid was driving the kart.. But I'm 6'4" and 250 so Everytime it really get on it once the tires are hot and sticky, the motor is twisting... I'm simply gonna put some support that keeps the motor mount square with the axle..

 

[Half-breeder]

Well... heres my 2 yen(.02 cents). Being from the country that, might as well say, endorsed 'drifting' as a form of racing, Drifting does NOT have to be done w/ a high powered motor! Heck Ive seen stock Datsun's/Nissan's drift. I will admit BIG power makes drifting easier and more effective(sideways further distances)... but to actually 'build' a kart 'just' for drifting is more so a weight, gearing, stance, CoG and camber/steering importance than a power plant subject.

Ive drifted my kart on 10's w/ a 6.5 clone using a 5:1 ratio. The thing about drifting is a stiff suspension(np w/ a kart unless you have ruts where youre gonna be driving, then it just becomes a matter of human response), low stance(low CoG), and camber of the suspension... front and rear(more so the front for traction and stability...camber makes more control going sideways due to the weight being slung to one side. The fact that doing so would mean not using a live axle makes camber in the rear a null subject(unless you plan on running twin motors on deads... 'that' would allow you to be 'able' to make rear camber... as well as doubling your HP output.

Im just saying... when you build something 'specifically' for something it's usually a matter of design(like everyone knows... der) but to build a specific drift kart isnt IMO the best idea.... making a kart 'able' to drift is a totally different subject... but Im 'guessing', from the thread title, a drift kart was the focus... not being able to drift...

 

[Datsun]

I agree with Half-breeder in the way that you do not need a stupid amount of power to drift. It's about control, a solid/live axle and a rear brake. But if you are serious about building something with a engine bigger than a 6.5hp honda clone. I would not be making your own chassis. I'm not trying to discourage building your own chassis, just if you use a engine that big.. I know a lot of people here like there own work, but sure as hell wouldn't bolt a 125/250 two stroke on to it.. I use to drift my old datsun 120y, semi stock a12 engine, made around 50hp. The car weight 850kg. It just had a welded diff. Front brakes are never going to be cheap, but they will stop you sliding in cars/gutters or wherever you will be driving this kart.

 

[Spawn]

Ok 4stroke power delivery is more predictable than a 2 stroke. A 2 stroke will have to be geared 100% to give power in the upper band so gearing sprocket size etc will be crucial. 4 strokes also last way longer than 2 strokes.
My cart will be a dedicated drifter as drifting in our country is new and **** expensive. I want to see how cheap I can build a safe cart.
To use an existing cart would be ideal but how do I extend the chassis without weakening it? And please don't tell me I don't have to extend the chassis as I would love to see an amateur drift a normal cart and hold it in a long sweep! A longer wheelbase is just easier to hold.
Everything on this cart will be a learning experience for me.

 

[voided]

Watch some videos on YouTube of kx125 shifter kart and you will see some guys drifting around a rotary of some sort.. No drifting is easy and its all a learning curve.

Also adding a second rear brake wouldn't be hard on a race chassis now that I think of it.. Gonna draw up some plans and see if a can sneaker a hand brake in for my drifter

 

[Poboy kartman]

To use an existing cart would be ideal but how do I extend the chassis without weakening it? Everything on this cart will be a learning experience for me.

Wait....What? You went from building a sliding adjustable frame from scratch to asking how to stretch an existing frame without weakening it????

 

[Spawn]

Lol chopping a cart in two and extending it will weaken it IMO as the karts I have seen is all bend tubing and I want to extend it behind the driver seat. That does not allow a lot of meat on the existing frame to work with. I might be overlooking something obvious here? Building a frame from scratch and using one size for the front section and a slightly larger dia for the back section so to allow one to fit in the other should not weaken it. Keep in mind this was a frame to experiment with to find the ideal lenght of a good drifting platform... The real drifting kart will be build along the same lines as the Ariel Atom.
My next problem is getting crazy steering angle. Without the steering getting too sensitive. I have found with some racing carts whenyou turn full lock one of the wheels lifts off the ground. Is this due to incorrect ackerman? Hopefully my pc will be sorted by next week then I can start on my plans for the chassis and get more input.

 

[Tig]

Half-breed has made some good point.
Man I miss my Hachi

Here's a few to give you an example of what a stock chassis is capable of.

This is a cr80, small compact and in a stock chassis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRkLP10-V1c

cr85, if you can whip up some donuts , you can drift. NSW language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mNlYNIrkOE

Taking the easy way out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1z__YksgE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX7IKFHn5LM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InZu14QcbJI

ALL stock chassis'

That's what great about those cr80/85s, pretty peppy, compact and come with a 6 speed for a very reasonable price.

A well maintained 2 stroke will last just as long as 4 stroke...........

My question to you is. You want to build a safe kart yet are unfamiliar with building it safely ie: extending the chassis. How do you plan on doing this?
Also, cheap and safe, typically don't go together.

That's why I was saying that I doubt it will be used specifically for drifting, you can go out have a blast and whip it in the corners or go autox it. Get the feel for it, get used to shifting and using the clutch. Then get into drifting
Like anything else, it takes practice.

Is there a specific group that you are joining that is dedicated to drifting only?

I'm still in for this

 

[Scout]

I had a little 4wd RC car years ago, and one time I took the front driveshaft out to run it 2wd. It was uncontrollable. It just wanted to do donuts all the time, I absolutely could not get it to go straight.

I had a lifted jeep with nearly bald 38 inch tires on it. The rear diff was a limited slip and freshly rebuilt. I had the front driveshaft out because the rear ratio was different from the front. One winter it snowed and I tried to drive it to the store. There wasn't much snow on the ground, but with the tight limited slip it was like it was welded and I could not go straight no matter how hard I tried.

Point it, there is more than one way to get a kart to drift. You can run it with huge power, or you can keep the motor you have and reduce the traction. IMHO the cheapest and best route is to put the PVC on the rear wheels. At least that way you can undo it easily if you don't want to drift.

 

[Spawn]

Lol and that's why I called the post a Think Tank. Each and every guys has a different but valid opinion that will in the end sway me into a specific direction.

As to a safe and cheap cart, if I build a similar frame as to the Ariel Atom with the enclosed frame I can use thinner material making the frame more rigid (a good thing).

As I said in our country this is a new and virtually inaccesible sport due to cost. If I can build or convert something safely.

Nothing has been put in stone. Engine size frame etc can still be changed, and all input will be considered...