Double your CVT variation anyone? think it will work!

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Weekend Warrior

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:idea2: So I have been kicking this idea around in my head for some time now. This setup is meant to increase the variation that a torque converter gives you, obviously doubling it is my intent. I was surprised to find no info on anyone trying this, and yes I searched. Now I know this is not practical. If I were to buy 2 torque converters I might as well find a old motorcycle engine and be done with it. But this is meant for people like me who have an extra go kart/ torque converter lying around. It would be cheap and give you more range. The only problem I foresee is spring adjustment, but a spring is a spring buy one with enough tension and the second torque converter should be fine.....I assume. So what do you guys think?...will it work?
 

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cavfire

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Don't know about the set screws, maybe the black garter springs in the second driver for earlier engagement at 1400rpm. With a 6" driven you would have a 0.9:1 gear ratio, so the second driver would only be 10% faster than the first, but the spread would be greater overall I think. One thing to consider though is frictional power loss from using torque converters will now be increased since you're using two of them.
 

Weekend Warrior

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Yeah I will have to agree with friction and power loss. But I am using a WI 390 they are 11 horse, and have a ton of torque. What I am saying is I think the power loss I will notice will be nominal. As for the 10% gain I think I know what you are saying but this is no easy concept if I think about it too much. I am trying to keep it simple in my head though. Lets say I can get my first TQ to be fully engaged at 2500rpm and have the second start compressing/ varying at 2500rpm. I know that the speed at which the shaft spins should keep increasing. The problem is that the second set would drop the ratio down, but I think that's what you are saying just took me longer to say it. The nice thing though is that if it does increase my spread I can then adjust my sprocket to get it on point! Oh, and I should have referred to the set screw as a stopper doesn't really set anything just prevents the second drive clutch from compressing in to far to disengage.
 

ezcome-ezgo

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I'll go out on a limb and suggest that no, this will not work. Also, why? Confucius say "Man with idle hands will break something".
 

Grape Ape

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Been wanting to do something like this when I was a kid (25 years ago), back then they had the Comet two speed clutch setup with a sprag bearing. Never was a big fan of torque converters but maybe they are better than they were when I was young. Just getting back into karting and already I see I have a lot to relearn / get updated on and for some reason my years as an Mechanical Engineer is messing with my head.
 

Weekend Warrior

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Too,ezcome-ezgo

“If you’re not prepared to be wrong, you’ll never come up with anything original.” - Ken Robinson. Yes that was copy and paste, :smiley_omg:
but it makes my point! Oh and isnt this called DIY go karts not go out and buy it go karts.:mad2: No offense though....just saying! We are all supposed to all be Buddies here!
 

itsid

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Only the series30 with a 6" driven has a 10% overdrive,
all other TCs (series 20, series 40 and even series30 with a 7" driven are 1:1 or lower)

Well
instead of drilling holes to keep the driver.2 engaged at all times, you can simply add small washers or precisely fitted shims inbetween the weights to expand them at all times.

But you should keep in mind that a TC has an efficiency of less than 80%, so stacking two of them will result in less than 64% of your original motor power available to actually push your kart.

I'm not exactly sure that this can actually work at all;
the s30-6 setup has a low ratio of 2.7:1.

with a properly geared kart (say 6:1) you end up with a takeoff ratio of around 44:1
which is insanely low.. and as a result your takeoff is powerfull but slow until the TCs are trying to adjust, basically cancelling out at least one TC (likely one flicks into overdrive immediately.. more likely they both adjust slightly to get to something like a 12:1 ratio perhaps...

So that didn't work too well (effectively the same as a 4.8:1 ratio and one one TC)
Okay, so you remove that final ratio completely (1:1) to get a more reasonable take of ratio of 7.3:1...

the TC.2 will have a hard time moving against all the unleveraged force of your kart,
and it's belt will suffer.. it'll likely just burn off!
But for now let's assume your belts will see no wear because of that.
7.3 is a nice ratio overall and the kart will act and behave just fine as long as you get it going without burning a belt..
... you accelerate since it's top speed you're after and both TC will very likely indeed try to shift into higher gear..
and they can.. up to a point!
in theory your now set high ratio would be 0.81:1 which equals a top speed of well above 145mph (with only 11" wheels that is)
with only 52%* of the engine's torque you'll hit a wall much sooner than that..
namely at around 50mph (air drag, and so will stop you from going faster than that)
which happens to be at a overall ratio of ~2.6:1 (again plus or minus)
And that is very close to the ratio of one TC again...
and thus you can simply replace one TC with with a say 26T sprocket to achieve the same result.
*(0.81 because of the ratio and 0.64 because of the efficiency of a TC)

See? in both extreme situations you can substitute a TC for a different sprocket ratio.
you'll burn your belts with a 2.7:1 ratio of course but that's nothing new ;)

Wonder why noone ever put TCs in series? because it's pointless.
in parallel is great though (efficiency and such)

Anyways, if you have two TCs laying around go for it, mount them to a jackshaft
pop driver.2 open, place a washer or two on the sliding rods in between the weights
and give it a shot.

you can just remove the washers and nothing happened (other than you probably burning a belt)
but you'll know for sure.

'sid

PS sorry Doug.. I think I indeed can't ;)
 

ezcome-ezgo

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Too,ezcome-ezgo

“If you’re not prepared to be wrong, you’ll never come up with anything original.” - Ken Robinson. Yes that was copy and paste, :smiley_omg:
but it makes my point! Oh and isnt this called DIY go karts not go out and buy it go karts.:mad2: No offense though....just saying! We are all supposed to all be Buddies here!

Not trying to be mean, rude or unfriendly. I admire your thinking outside the box. Don't stop.
 

Weekend Warrior

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Its all good I didn't take any offense, its hard to express sarcasms via chat but I appreciate all the info. I didn't think of the extra torque that the 2nd TQ would have to take though. I definitely don't want to go any faster then 50 this will be a off road cart so maybe I can just gear it supper low and top out at 50. It will have a 3 foot flat bed on it hauling stuff up hills and such as well.
 

bob58o

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I'll go out on a limb and suggest that no, this will not work. Also, why? Confucius say "Man with idle hands will break something".

Our Politicians NEVER work and they ALWAYS break EVERYTHING!!!
Harrison Ford , as The Fugitive, for President. (less hands!)
 

chancer

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Its all good I didn't take any offense, its hard to express sarcasms via chat but I appreciate all the info. I didn't think of the extra torque that the 2nd TQ would have to take though. I definitely don't want to go any faster then 50 this will be a off road cart so maybe I can just gear it supper low and top out at 50. It will have a 3 foot flat bed on it hauling stuff up hills and such as well.

Read Closely. Look at Ez Come's Signature line! LOL
 

Denny

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I say if you got the stuff you might as well try it. Who knows you might actually invent something useful like an infinitely variable transmission. :thumbsup:

Denny
 

itsid

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ivt... the holy grail of tranmission myths :D

Was a nice faux ivt on yt a couple of years back.... until someone pointed out that the variator (the gear selector) would need to be fed with the same amount of power as the input shaft :D
Rendering the input shaft and everything between it and the selctor basically useless.

But truth is: I'm very much PRO testing the concept if you indeed happen to have two TCs laying around.
There's still a chance it behaves differently than I'd expect (it's small.. infinitesimally small... but NOT zero :D)

'sid
 
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