Doesn't crank- electric problem.

[Crisf65]

DF200GKA. Didn't crank after rough ride by kids who cannot follow instructions and ran it on our motocross track.
I checked, engine turns over, starter and battery ok- fuel ok.
Took the engine cover off and found part below- 3 wires- green, black and gray hanging loose in front of it. I opened the part and there was a circuit board showing the 3 wires are corroded off. No idea which pin belongs to which wire. The part comes obviously with the wires as pig tail. They go on a white connector.
Now- question- what is it? Can it be the root cause and where do I get the part from? Or does anyone know, which wire goes to which pin?
I didn't know where to ask, as there is no room for electrical problems.
Help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Denny]

I have no clue. Sorry.

 

[Master Hack]

I'm purdy sure that is the flux capacitor demodulator. The purple wire goes from that to the dilithium crystal regulator in order to keep the faraday sheild at resonant frequency of 4.458 Ghz.

so yer purdy screwed.

 

[Rat]

They go on a white connector.
Now- question- what is it?

Turn signal relay it's not uncommon even if there are no signals or signal controls on account of cost cutting by making and using the same harness on an entire line of machines from the cheap and dirty version to the fully decked out most dressed and expensive version.
The 1970 Honda SL175 I used to have didn't come with more than a headlight (off-low-High), tail/brake light by because it was a sister bike to the CB175 and CL175. It was wired and pigtailed for full signals with a blinker relay (I added 1968 CB175 signals because of that) because those three models of bike used the one singular main and sub harnesses as well as a large number of other components.

Can it be the root cause and where do I get the part from?

No

Or does anyone know, which wire goes to which pin?

Best bet it to do your best to get a wiring schematic for the specific M/M/Y machine.

I double checked the machine you named, and I'm seeing that has a Gy6 clone for an engine, and the thing about those is they run great until they don't and they're #1 problem is always electrical because China overcomplicated by routing wires through hot spots, pinch points, and using tiny wires on top of it.

With THAT part corroded into failure then there's no telling how many other corroded terminals and failed wires there are throughout the machine.

You would be best to yank the engine out; go through the wiring and check for a neutral safety switch and it's wire, which again a wiring diagram would be helpful.

Machines like that and my 2006 Mule have a pressure switch that prevents starting when not connected or in neutral.

It's a single wire, grounded through the gearbox and when the switch goes bad, the wire breaks, or it's not in neutral (closing the circuit) the starter will not roll, and I'm pretty sure the solonoid doesn't even engage either.

You didn't indicate whether there was power elsewhere on the machine (lights?) But with absolutely no crank I'd 100% be looking for a disconnected neutral switch

 

[Crisf65]

Turn signal relay it's not uncommon even if there are no signals or signal controls on account of cost cutting by making and using the same harness on an entire line of machines from the cheap and dirty version to the fully decked out most dressed and expensive version.
The 1970 Honda SL175 I used to have didn't come with more than a headlight (off-low-High), tail/brake light by because it was a sister bike to the CB175 and CL175. It was wired and pigtailed for full signals with a blinker relay (I added 1968 CB175 signals because of that) because those three models of bike used the one singular main and sub harnesses as well as a large number of other components.

No

Best bet it to do your best to get a wiring schematic for the specific M/M/Y machine.

I double checked the machine you named, and I'm seeing that has a Gy6 clone for an engine, and the thing about those is they run great until they don't and they're #1 problem is always electrical because China overcomplicated by routing wires through hot spots, pinch points, and using tiny wires on top of it.

With THAT part corroded into failure then there's no telling how many other corroded terminals and failed wires there are throughout the machine.

You would be best to yank the engine out; go through the wiring and check for a neutral safety switch and it's wire, which again a wiring diagram would be helpful.

Machines like that and my 2006 Mule have a pressure switch that prevents starting when not connected or in neutral.

It's a single wire, grounded through the gearbox and when the switch goes bad, the wire breaks, or it's not in neutral (closing the circuit) the starter will not roll, and I'm pretty sure the solonoid doesn't even engage either.

You didn't indicate whether there was power elsewhere on the machine (lights?) But with absolutely no crank I'd 100% be looking for a disconnected neutral switch

Awesome info- thanks. The starter engages, the motor turns, but t doesn't crank. Everything else is just lights, and they work too.
Do you know where I can get a wiring diagram? I googled but can't find one .

 

[Denny]

Try the manufacturer for a wiring harness diagram. There is a big difference between does not crank and does not start. You have a does not start condition from the sounds of it. It sounds like it cranks fine from your description. 2 very different problems. Have you checked for spark yet? Fuel? Compression check?

 

[Rat]

Awesome info- thanks. The starter engages, the motor turns, but t doesn't crank. Everything else is just lights, and they work too.
Do you know where I can get a wiring diagram? I googled but can't find one .

Like Denny said...
There No crank, and there's No start.

Since it cranks, you need to check the fuel system, air filter, and spark plugs. I personally won't use resistor plug because they can fail suddenly and without warning, Non resistor plugs can run for decades as long as the engine is kept in good health and well tuned.

Pull the spark plug, hold it to a head stud or other unpainted engine surface for ground and have someone turn the key.

No spark could be as simple as trimming and reseating the HT lead in the coil and cap, replacing the coil itself, replacing the ignition trigger, replacing the CDI (ignitor box) but we don't randomly throw shıt at it to see what sticks... we rule them out starting with the simplest, cheapest, most probable things first.

Verify spark
Having spark doesn't mean its on time, so if there is spark and after checking other possibilities it's worth circling back to spark and pull the flywheel to rule out a sheared key.

The tank being full doesn't mean fuel is getting to the carb.

Check the air filter, a wet filter doesn't breathe and and engine that doesn't breathe doesn't start or run. If they went puddle jumping it's possible to have water logged the filter.

Fuel getting down to the carb doesn't mean the fuel is getting where it needs to be from there, so after verifying a clean dry air filter, and fuel getting down to the carb... clean the carb out.

GY6 is an OHC engine so pull the lid off the rockerbox or the intake tappet access cover (that round sucker with a 17mm hex in the cylinderhead) and verify the cam is turning/valves are opening to rule out a busted timing chain.

 

[Crisf65]

Try the manufacturer for a wiring harness diagram. There is a big difference between does not crank and does not start. You have a does not start condition from the sounds of it. It sounds like it cranks fine from your description. 2 very different problems. Have you checked for spark yet? Fuel? Compression check?

Thanks- yes, I checked all that. I guess I really need the wiring diagram

 

[Crisf65]

Like Denny said...
There No crank, and there's No start.

Since it cranks, you need to check the fuel system, air filter, and spark plugs. I personally won't use resistor plug because they can fail suddenly and without warning, Non resistor plugs can run for decades as long as the engine is kept in good health and well tuned.

Pull the spark plug, hold it to a head stud or other unpainted engine surface for ground and have someone turn the key.

No spark could be as simple as trimming and reseating the HT lead innthe coil, replacing the coil itself, replacing the ignition trigger, replacing the CDI (ignitor box) but we don't randomly throw shıt at it to see what sticks... we rule them out starting with the simplest, cheapest, most probable things first.

Verfy spark
Having spark doesn't mean its on time, so if there is spark and after checking other possibilities it's worth circling back to spark and pull the flywheel to rule out a sheared key.

The tank being full doesn't mean fuel is getting to the carb.

Check the air filter, a wet filter doesn't breathe and and engine that doesn't breathe doesn't start or run. If they went puddle jumping it's possible to have water logged the filter.

Fuel getting down to the carb doesn't mean the fuel is getting where it needs to be from there, so after verifying a clean dry air filter, and fuel getting down to the carb... clean the carb out.

GY6 is an OHC engine so pull the lid off the rockerbox or the intake tappet access cover (that round sucker with a 17mm hex in the cylinderhead) and verify the cam is turning/valves are opening to rule out a busted timing chain.

Tell me I'm screwed without telling me I'm screwed?

 

[Denny]

What is the engine not getting? Spark, fuel or compression? We can help you better.

 

[Crisf65]

Has compression, has fuel, has spark but it doesn't start- plug is wet. Checked carburetor and nothing wrong. I tried with starter spray, nothing.

 

[Denny]

Does it even pop or try to start? How is the valve lash? Did you try a new spark plug by any chance?

 

[Rat]

Has fuel...
Has compression...
Has spark...
Doesn't Start...

Make sure your getting a strong pulse at the tail pipe while it's cranking because it's possible to just be a clogged exhaust pipe.

If there's a strong exhaust pulse tear it down to the flywheel and pull it to make sure the key didn't shear and also check to make sure the ignition trigger is in the correct position because spark out of time doesn't start or run; in fact it can cause a lot of damage should there be a random ignition too far out of whack.

 

[Rat]

Tell me I'm screwed without telling me I'm screwed?

I'm thorough and honest about the reality of things.
You're not screwed until the engine blows its guts out... even then your not screwed, you're just being given a legitimate excuse to engine swap and upgrade for more power.

 

[Crisf65]

Does it even pop or try to start? How is the valve lash? Did you try a new spark plug by any chance?

Nope. Also tried new plug. It's like something missing. I'm just at the beginning of my quest- I just thought maybe someone had a similar issue and give me a hint. If it's too excessive, I throw the motor out and get one from Harbour Freight.

 

[Denny]

Timing or compression, one of those two must be missing then. If you go the HF route you’ll need a 420 and a 40 series to move that pig around.

 

[Rat]

Nope. Also tried new plug. It's like something missing. I'm just at the beginning of my quest- I just thought maybe someone had a similar issue and give me a hint. If it's too excessive, I throw the motor out and get one from Harbour Freight.

That's why I said check the ignition trigger and pull the flywheel to check for a sheared key.

 

[Crisf65]

Timing or compression, one of those two must be missing then. If you go the HF route you’ll need a 420 and a 40 series to move that pig around.

I thought about timing. But it ran before the boy parked it. It just didn't start anymore.
Before I replace the engine, I sell it. I have some bike parts I "need"

 

[Denny]

I know you’re mad at the kids and the kart right now but slow down, take a deep breath and start eliminating things. It’s the only way to figure it out. Things can take a violent turn internally when the engine is turned off and all the mass stops spinning.

 

[Rat]

I thought about timing. But it ran before the boy parked it. It just didn't start anymore.

Sometimes that's literally all it takes to shift a key that is already busted and trying to move, or jitter a screw out that last 0.050mm into oblivion never to be seen again

Before I replace the engine, I sell it. I have some bike parts I "need"

Where ya located, I've got a commissioned 301Hemi Predator project that's looking for a stout full roll cage chassis to be mounted to.

With a base of 8hp and 14ft bs of torque and getting every trick and hop up part in the books throw at it... it will be fit enough to move my 1350lb Kawasaki mule when complete I'm sure.