Does size count?

[DeeJee]

With a T.C, as opposed to a cent. clutch, can I get as much power (not necessiarly speed) from less H.P.? From what I am reading, I suspect that sometimes smaller is better. I have old motors, big and old but strong. But, I read good things about the later and newer clones. Weight , I suspect, is very important, up to a point.I am not interested in speed, but have to navigate pastureland. Not rough, but definately off road. I am building to carry weight. I have a Yamaha Gas golf cart that does well with its beefed up T.C. It is 16 HP, and after I changed the weights in the clutch, has never stalled. I have a 18 HP Kohler Magnum, and it weighs in at about 100#. I intended to use it in my cart, but am having second thoughts. The big fly in the ointment is the shaft is 1 1/8 inch, and any style clutch I use will not be very handy to use with any other motors I might use. I weigh in at just over 200#, so the weight problem grows. But, I suspect that by shooting for torque, and not speed, this might not be as big a problem as I think. Comments on this would be greatly appreciated.
DeeJee

 

[Poboy kartman]

to the forum neighbor! !!!

 

[firemanjim]

You can push a 1000 lbs with 1 HP, if geared right.......
EDIT
Let me reiterate my statement..... With 18hp, you have enough oomph to get you going. Yeah, bummer on the 1.125" shaft. So have it machined down, or see if you can find one online with a 1"..... Or.....
Be creative..... Just it a sprocket on the engine, so it turns a same size sprocket on a 1" shaft, that the tc driver is mounted on...... See where I'm going ?
18 HP is enough to move you, your kart and another few hundred pounds, if geared right..... And still be semi fast and a lot of fun.....

 

[DeeJee]

Aaaah, I think I seeee. I never thought of putting a jack shaft in front of a T.C. A sprocket for a 1 1/8 shaft and another for a one inch jack shaft would be a cheap solution, far cheaper than a machine job on the crank. Am I correct in thinking that ,standing behind the cart, the T.C. would have to be on the left hand end of the jack shaft? And I suppose that I would use locking collars to hold the T.C. in place, and that it would be preferable to put the jack shaft pillow block as close as possible to the T.C. driver?

 

[Poboy kartman]

No...you could put both gears on the same side....and a locking collar on the other....

 

[DeeJee]

I now think I would actually have to have two jack shafts if I come off motor with small sprocket to #1 jack shaft with same size sprocket, then T. C. driver from #1 to #2 jack shaft with driven, then small sprocket to large on axle. Am I right? Sometimes I cannot see the forrest for the trees. And all this to keep from removing crank. In the long run it would probably be cheaper and easier to turn crank or to buy another driver if I decided not to use motor with 1 1/8 shaft. I feel a miagraine coming on.

 

[OzFab]

can I get as much power (not necessiarly speed) from less H.P.?

Logically speaking, no since HP = horse power...

Technically speaking, yes you can; we had a member here a while ago who was involved in junior dragsters which run 5hp B&S engines; he claims to have built an engine with 55hp...

I know, that's a bit extreme for what you're doing, right but, I think that answers your question, correct?

I also understand the premise of "less is more"; a 9hp engine, no matter what manufacturer, is based on a larger block & crank, meaning more weight & more expensive transmission components; let's talk about honda/clones:

A Honda GX140, GX160 & GX200 all use the same small block; the GX240 - GX390 all use the bigger block; A GX240 is rated at 9hp (IIRC) stock & it's not difficult or expensive to extract 13hp from it; likewise, it's not difficult for a GX200 to produce 9hp, the significant difference being the GX200 is much lighter than its 9hp big brother...

However, you could go one further; a GX160, rated at 5.5hp, has a smaller combustion chamber than & GX200 (14cc vs 18cc respectively) meaning higher compression which translates to more power... &, being the same block, a 14cc head will bolt straight onto a GX200 block...

That's just one way to increase HP, there are many more...

The big fly in the ointment is the shaft is 1 1/8 inch

Look into snow mobile torque converters, I'm sure at least some of them have 1 1/8" shafts...

 

[DeeJee]

Thanks. In my mind, bigger is not always better. It all depends on what end result is looked for. I am not interested in racing, nor mountain climbing. And buying a T.C. for a 1 1/8 shaft pretty well constricts what the T.C. will fit. There are many more engines of various H.P. with one inch shafts. I own two, a 5 and a 11, both B&S. And I also have a Tecumseh on a old power washer that is 5 or 6 HP, and I would almost bet it is one inch.
One last question, and I will quit. Years ago there was brass shim stock. Could a one inch shaft be shimmed .0625 for the 1 1/8 T.C.? Just a thought.

 

[OzFab]

There are many more engines of various H.P. with one inch shafts. I own two, a 5 and a 11, both B&S.

whoa, hold up, a 5hp B&S should have a 3/4" shaft; if it's a vertical shaft it may be 7/8" but I doubt it will be 1"...

And I also have a Tecumseh on a old power washer that is 5 or 6 HP, and I would almost bet it is one inch.

...& now we're in even deeper water; pressuer washer engines usually have a tapered shaft...

One last question, and I will quit. Years ago there was brass shim stock. Could a one inch shaft be shimmed .0625 for the 1 1/8 T.C.? Just a thought.

Absolutely... but, why would you want to? A TC for a 1" shaft are readily & easily available, 1 1/8" not so much...

 

[DeeJee]

I mistyped, I have a 8 and a 11 HP, both with one inch shafts. And the Tecumseh I have no idea.

 

[OzFab]

That makes more sense; 8hp & up are usually 1", regardless of manufacturer...

 

[DeeJee]

Back to the shim stock question: If I buy a TC for the Kohler 18 HP with a 1 1/8 shaft, it and the driven, and the belt, is over $300. Then, if for any reason, I decide to downsize, I would be a lot happier if I could utilize the same clutch. I am of the age where I remember repairing auto motors with shim stock rather than replacing rod bearings. You simply shimmed the bad one, put the oil pan back on, filled er up with 40 weight, and went back to driving. The parts houses in my area no longer carry this shim stock, but I suspect it is out there. It would be a little difficult to shim the solid circle, (as opposed to removing a rod cap)especially with a keyway in it, but I think it could be done. I don't have any idea, after all these years, what sizes the shim stock came in. A piece slightly undersize from the .0625 would probably work a little better. Turning the crank down would solve the problem, but I don't want to tear down a perfectly good motor. It has been over fifty years since I tore into one, and I just don't want to do it. I still have the ring squeezers, hones, etc. and it is not a big job. Never the less, I don't wanna.
A small problem is I cannot read the serial and model number. This motor is over twenty years old, and through time the numbers have faded into obscurity. Not terribly important with most issues, but can still be aggrivating.