Do I Need to Fuse?

[bob58o]

Want to use this Battery to Run Either the Flood Light or the LED Strip, NOT both at the same time. Going to use 18 AWG Speaker Wire. Do I need to run a fuse? I ordered some 3AMP fuses/fuse holders, but not sure I need them.


TalentCell YB1206000
https://www.amazon.com/TalentCell-Rechargeable-12000mAh-Multi-led-indicator/dp/B00ME3ZH7C
28mm x 85mm x 145mm
6000 mAh (12V)
INPUT: 12.6V 3A MAX
CHARGER 12.6V 1Amp
OUTPUT 12V 3A MAX

CE Certified
Over-discharge Protection
Overcharge Protection
Short Circuit Protection

27W Round LED Flood Work Light
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-27W-Ro...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Working Voltage
9-32V

Power
9Pcs*3W

Current Draw
1.5A@12V,0.9A@24V

Effective Lumen
1400LM

Waterproof Rate IP 67

Housing Material
Die-cast Aluminum

Lens material
PC

Mounting Bracket
Stainless Steel

Dimensions
110x55x128mm


LED Strip Light SMD 3528 Flexible Tape 300led DC12V indoor outdoor lighting rope IP65 Waterproof
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Strip-...var=521379163394&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Specifications:
Input voltage: DC12V
Storage temperature: -40⁰C~+80⁰C
Operating temperature: -20⁰C~+60⁰C
Power: 4.8w/w, total 24 watts
Beam angle: 120⁰
LED chips: Epistar 3528
LED quantity: 60 LEDs/m, total 300 LEDs for 5 meters
Brightness: 4-5lm/LED
Waterproof grade: IP65 Waterproof; NON-Waterproof IP20
CRI: >80Ra
Length: 5 meters per reel
Packing: anti-static bag, 5m/reel, 1reel/bag
Lifetime: ≥ 30,000 hours
Warranty: 1 year
Certifications: CE&ROHS

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

Better to blow a cheap fuse than have a melt down.

 

[bob58o]

Better to blow a cheap fuse than have a melt down.

That’s what I was thinking. I’m assuming I don’t need one, but better safe than sorry. There would’t be an in-line fuse if I hooked it up to a camera as is.

 

[itsid]

I'm not sure a fuse will do actually..
those batpacks are nice and comfy to charge a cell phone and maybe even run one or two devices from it for an hour or so..
BUT running lights (constantly 2A..)
I'm not sure that battery will take that without getting hot
(in the end it's sealed, not ventilated and most certainly not actively cooled..)

IDK, I don't trust it enough to give you a thumbsup..
For now I'd say: if you don't run it for more than an hour a day... maybe

chances are it's cheap chinese stuff
and comes without an internal temp fuse.. which is always bad, especially for Lithium cells

hmm... I'm sceptical (that's probably the best matching term here )

'sid

PS as far as I read the description it should have an internal overcurrent fuse (self resetting I hope!) so no need to add another one of a bigger or even similar size... go 2.5A to be sure to have yours triggered before the internal one blows

 

[KingCobra]

I doubt the batteries will get too hot for dangerous conditions. Voltage spikes can destroy a line of LED's so I would use a low voltage fuse as stated earlier. It can't hurt and it's better to be safe than sorry......... Just do it............. Just remember what the max voltage an LED can handle and for how long and go a few steps lower than that and get FAST BLOW fuses. BUT if there will BE no fear of voltage spikes, there would be no need for a fuse unless YOU tend to overload the line.... I have ziploc bags full of several different colored leds cause I used to make Light Organs with them. They even use fuses between the stereo amp and speakers to keep the speakers from blowing.....

 

[bob58o]

An hour per day is all I was hoping to get out of it. A hour of cruising on the minibike is like 15+ miles. My trips don't last that long.

As for cooling... How about a 30 - 40mph breeze blowing at it as I drive around. Hope the heat makes it to the case, that I will be using like a heat sink. It was cheap and came with a 3 year replacement plan for an additional buck fifty.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Edit: Got the 2.5A fuses. I paid for the fuse holders, might as well use them.

 

[bob58o]

12:15 AM - Let the clock begin.
I charged it fully like two days ago.
Let’s see if it still works in an hour.

It is bright when looking directly at it. I flashed myself and now I see UFOs when I close my eyes.

1:15 AM
Light still bright. It’s warm. No where near Hot. Go LEDs!
Battery still has 3 of 4 charge indicator lights on. Fell to 3/4 at ~40 minutes.
Battery is cool as a cucumber. Not even warm.

I’ll continue the test until it gets to 2/4 charge.

1:38 AM
2/4 charge indicator lights.
The indicator light flickered from 1:37-1:38, so that time is pretty accurate.
Battery still cool.

1:53 AM
Plugged in the charger.
Immediately lit the 3rd indicator light.
(Think I read the lights round up)
Must Turn the Battery ON to charge.
Says 6 Hrs to fully charge.
Supposedly 6Ah Battery and 1 Amp charger.

2:36 AM
4th indicator light came on.
So about 40 minutes again? I dunno??

4:48 AM
Light on Charger switched form Red to Green. 100%
40 minutes from 50 to 75%.
132 minutes from 75 to 100%
That is a good thing right? Do all li ion chargers have "smart" feature like that?


I've seen a video showing where it has (6 - 18650) 3.7V li ion cells.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGCu8NpFdo8

I ran 27 Watts for 1.38 hrs and it drained half the battery.
So that would be like a 75 watt hour battery.
At 12V, that is 6.2 Amp hours.

2.25 Amps (27 watts at 12V) for 1.38 hrs x 2(since it drained half way) = 6.2Amp Hours

So on initial use, it appears to be what it says it is.
The video says the cells are only 2200mAh, but when new it acted like a 3100mAh.

But if the battery drops to 10Volts (3.3V each cell, then 10V, 27 Watts, 2.7Amps.

Maybe I should keep the 3 amp fuses???

How well do these do with the vibrations of a minibike? I might need to keep the battery on my person. My mini shakes pretty good.

 

[bob58o]

NASA GAB on Li Ion 18650 Cells
(My discharging should be 0.5C or lower and charging should be 0.25C or Lower)

Performance and Safety Testing of
Panasonic 2.9 Ah Li-ion NCR
18650 Cells

https://batteryworkshop.msfc.nasa.g...st_Panasonic_Li-Ion_NCR_18650_Cells_JRead.pdf

Some interesting data can be gleaned about how to make them last as long as possible.
For instance the chart on Page 10; the capacity over 200 cycles doesn't change too greatly when the discharge rate is anything from 1C and below, eg C/5 or C/10 or 1C, as long as the charge rate is 1/2 C or less than 1C. When the charge rate was at 1C, the lifespan of the cell really diminished rapidly.
On Page 11, the discharge rate was always 1C (except for the C/10 charge, C/10 discharge baseline), but they changed the charge rate, and again, you can see that the higher the charge rate, the bigger the impact on lifespan.
So the key is to charge at as low a rate as you have time to wait; eg, if you can, leave the cell to charge overnight at a low rate, 1/2 C, 1/5 C, or 1/10 C (for the CC part of the CC/CV charge algorithm of course). The slower you charge the better for the life of the cell.
For LONG TERM storage only, 75% SOC is better than 100% SOC. If it's only for a few days or weeks of storage between usage cycles, it won't make a lot of difference in comparison to the difference made by the way (rate) you charge and discharge the cells.
Temperature also plays a role, as shown on page 12. Normal room temperature is ideal.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?372905-Maximizing-the-lifespan-of-18650-cells

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

I'd always thought a slow charge was preferred, now I have the GAB evidence.

 

[itsid]

discharging "half way" is unfortunately NOT "half way" so that alone will cause to a misleading measurement.
(it solely depends on the accuracy of the indicator lights...
what they assume to be discharged.. 10V.. 10.2V, 10.3...what?)
Also discharge time ratio and self recovery
cells do recover slightly when left alone after use.. so a 10V cell could recover to 11+Volts
depending on the temperature and how fast it has been drained and whatnot.

But I guess it's fair to say your battery is currently indeed 6Ah as advertised.. (that's good!)
I would place a bet on 6.2 tbh.

But since you cracked it open... TNL-ITR18650-AF for all I know are indeed 2200mAh

typically LiIon batteries do not have a FIXED capacity... a 2200mAh cell
has little less on initial charge [1800 or so] peaks at third or fourth charge with 2800 and settles on 2200 throughout the next few charging cycles until they go down to 1200 when nearly dead.
So I hope you don't have just the six cells we see..
since you'd need nine for a 12v proper 6Ah pack
otherwise the pack will settle on ~ 4Ah within a few cycles.

'sid

PS and yes.. trickle charging is best for cells since it induces the least amount of heat which is always bad (in or out) and the main reason for cells to die.. and no, active cooling doesn't help much either I'm afraid

 

[bob58o]

But since you cracked it open... TNL-ITR18650-AF for all I know are indeed 2200mAh

That was a screen shot of the video I linked. I didn't open it up. I am not certain I have the same cells, but the video is of a similar 6ah YB1206000. It is not exactly the same (different power light), but a good chance it it using the same cells. His claim was that it was only a 4400mAh pack. And I used 4ah when I stated it was ~0.5C discharge and ~0.25C charge.

I was just hoping I had (6) 3.7V 3100 mAh in there.
Plus I've read that many of the chinese 18650's are around 1800mAh, but claim twice that. So even if I opened it and saw 3100mAh, not sure I could believe it.

My main concern at this point is the vibration of the minibike. Not sure if it was designed to handle that. The instruction manual said "Don't trample" (so there goes my trampling idea) but there was no rule about shaking. Babies are easy. There is a rule. "NEVER Shake a Baby!" And everybody knows that rule. I'm hoping nobody knows that rule about batteries because batteries and chinese soldering find the rattle soothing.

 

[itsid]

well.. since you ran your lights for more than an hour without it getting hot..
(leaving a significant amount of charge) I doubt you need to worry really.
it'll be fine!

Rubber mount the battery if you're concerned about the vibration,
soft grommets will do, but in case you're super worried..
maybe you can hang it under the seat or from the upper tubes with rubber bands or in a pouch *shrugs*

generally: no electronics like vibration too much..
pcbs break, parts rattle loose, circuits /connectors short out etc.
that's why you find electronics inside tools epoxied or covered in silicone goo more often than not.
So yeah.. more vibration than it'd see inside a backpack on a subway train through the outskirts of Prague? rubber mount!
not really? nevermind

'sid

 

[bob58o]

IP65 Water proof LED tape arrived functional.

 

[bob58o]

The garage was completely dark. The 27 W head light was the only light on.

 

[bob58o]

The solderless led strip connectors work about as well as me in the afternoon after an all you can eat lunch buffet.

Maybe 1 of 3 attempts, I can peel the waterproof coating to expose the solder/connector pads on the tape without cutting through or tearing it. And then once connected. The tape pulls out very easily.

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

Be a man, use solder.

 

[bob58o]

So what do I need for a tail light / brake light led combo.
I'm looking for something with three wires, I think.
12V for tail light.
12V for brake light.
Ground.

Hoping I could just run the 12V for a tail light and then another 12V circuit for the brake light going through the switch on my brake lever.

I'm assuming that the switch on the brake is normally open, and closes when I pull the brake.
So I'm looking for a a three wire tail/brake light. Does it exist? Am I doing it right? What is available out there? Looking for low wattage.

---------- Post added at 11:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------

Well it didn't take very long to find something like what I wanted.
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Lights/Optronics/STL82RCB.html
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Lights/Optronics/STL002RMB.html
http://www.empirechromeshop.com/p-8...bHJ2_B6rZvSDt5KYE-n-4_Wt7oCPwiXRoCOPsQAvD_BwE

I need to stop myself before I try to add mirrors and turn signals.
I'm guessing to wire a turn signal, you power the brake light and some blinker relay thing added to the brake circuit?

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

No. Every function has it's own wire. Consult the Lucas British Common Electrical Circuits manual.

 

[Functional Artist]

At the rear of the bike you should have (3) separate wire pairs, 1 positive & 1 negative, for each function

(1) positive wire connects the brake light to the brake lever

The other (2) positive wires start @ a (3) way switch (on/off/on)
...that's usually mounted on the left handle bar

Then (1) positive wire connects to the left turn signal light

& the other positive wire connects the right turn signal light

You should be able to use a common ground (negative) for all three

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

Don't forget the flasher box or you just can manually blink the light for the turn signals.
And use a double momentary switch so you don't look like the guy who leaves the blinker on for miles.