Dirt cheap kart

[Cbreiter]

So, I started building a kart with my buddy today, as most of you probably have seen my t-bucket thread. We are building the frame out of material from one of those old tarp garages. Pritty much anything that is free, or can be recycled, we are using in it. Spent a lot of quality time with a chop saw, grinder, and welder today, lol. Here is some pictures of it currently, with what we got done today.

This one has the seat and rear axle just set in place.

here is just the frame.

And here is the motor with the header we built for it.

If anyone sees any issues that we are going to have, or anything that is a problem, let me know. Btw, the welds on the frame are not complete, as my stove in my garage is not working, so I can't have the door open to let the smoke out. Hopefully next week the parts for my stove will get here (hate winter in saskachewan. was -20 degrees Celsius today).

 

[rocketkart]

looks good to me but dont you think a old tarp garage tubing is a bet thin? make a roll cage to stiffen it up some weld it directly to the frame.

maybe somthing like this. lol

 

[OzFab]

Issues, maybe but, before I go there, I have a few questions:
1. What guage (wall thickness) is the tube?
2. What was your thinking on the engine position?

The frame may need some diagonal bracing; perhaps remove the first crossmember & fill the section between the front & the seat with an X shape. It's a bit more work but, you'll be glad you did, the frame will be a lot stronger & safer

 

[Cbreiter]

I was planning to weld a chunk of sheetmetal in that first section, but I can weld x-bracing in. I was also planning to have a hoop, about as high as the back of the seat with tubing running from the far ends of the frame to it. The engine plate is in the back corner, the dull coloured piece. the tubing is fairly thin, I'm thinking maybe 20 gauge (might be thicker).

 

[OzFab]

Seriously? 20 guage is waaaay too thin, 16ga is pushing it... Before you do anything else, get a set of digital calipers & measure it!

I can see where the engine plate is, what I want to know is why did you put it there?

 

[Cbreiter]

I will check stiff out when I get a chance. Unfortunately had a fire in the garage, and will have to do some rewiring. Feel so dumb for even letting it happen. The reason the engine plate was there, is cause that's where my buddy wanted it to be. I thought in the middle might have been better.

 

[OzFab]

... & how many karts has your buddy built?

For balance, yes, centred is better & as far forward as possible, you want the engine in front of the axle

 

[mckutzy]

why did you have a fire in the garage? Cause of the welder????

 

[Cbreiter]

my buddy hasn't built any karts before. He is an engineering student, though I'm not sure that makes much difference. All of my karts are set up that way, but he seems to think that this would be better. I dunno, first kart I have built, though personally I would have followed a set of blueprints. The welder was the cause of the fire, yes, but not because of inadequate wiring, more cause I didn't think about the cardboard I use for oil changes that was sitting behind where I was welding. I don't usually do much welding in the shop, so it never was an issue before. I use a flux core mig, so there is usually lots of extra smoke, which is why I generally weld outside.

 

[katoranger]

I have to agree that you tubing choice may not be a good one. I have some of that tubing and its really thin. Props for being able to weld it. That thin stuff is not easy.

If you ad a roll bar that may be enough to brace it all up.

 

[OzFab]

He is an engineering student

Oh ok so, he knows everything then

As I said, with the engine plate in its current position, the weight of the engine will be behind the rear axle. That weight transfer will affect the whole kart, most imoprtantly, the steering/handling as the weight of the engine will effectively lift the front of the kart...

 

[Cbreiter]

Lol, I know engineers are not necessarily bright, believe me, I know. Comes from working for several different companies that employ engineers that figure that if it works on paper, it should work physical too. 9 times out of 10, it doesn't, lol. The tubing isn't horrible to weld, just takes patience. Something that I have learned from doing autobody work is to take your time, and not try to do beads, just lay tacks on top of each other allowing it to cool in between. Prevents warpage, and burn through. If I were to lengthen the frame enough so the engine sits ontop of, or slightly ahead of the rear axle, and then add a roll bar, aswell as an X under the frame, would that fix the problem?
Here is what we were going to do originally, though I did add a chunk to the frame to fix the issue of the engine being too far back.

 

[OzFab]

The cross brace at the rear should be enough to strengthen the frame, as long as there's enough space for the chain to run freely.

Take the hint, MOVE THE ENGINE PLATE FORWARD!

 

[Cbreiter]

Lol, sorry. I can be kinda dense at times, so unless you say it, I might not catch it. Picked up a new welder yesterday (the fire collapsed the liner in my old one, and being as how that it wasn't a lincon or something similar, parts are almost imposable to find). This one is a lincon mig pack 140, so it should be a lot better, as I will be able to use gas now, or even weld aluminium if I decide I want to. Got the wire and conduit to fix stuff in my garage too. Hopefully have it all fixed up soon. Also got my part for my stove! Now I can have heat again, lol. Do you think that if i move that plate all the way forward to the front of the section, that it would be far enough, even if I don't add an extension to the frame? Also, with that hoop behind the seat, would it be dumb to do an x-brace there too?

 

[OzFab]

Picked up a new welder yesterday (the fire collapsed the liner in my old one, and being as how that it wasn't a lincon or something similar, parts are almost imposable to find).

You just have to know where to look

This one is a lincon mig pack 140, so it should be a lot better, as I will be able to use gas now, or even weld aluminium if I decide I want to. Got the wire and conduit to fix stuff in my garage too. Hopefully have it all fixed up soon. Also got my part for my stove! Now I can have heat again, lol.

Did you happen to pick up a fire extinguisher while you were at it?

Do you think that if i move that plate all the way forward to the front of the section, that it would be far enough, even if I don't add an extension to the frame?

Yes & yes

Also, with that hoop behind the seat, would it be dumb to do an x-brace there too?

Adding X bracing is never a dumb idea, they add strength

 

[Cbreiter]

Oh? I had my previous welder replaced once under warranty because the wire feeder quit working. They had sent it to a repair shop, but they ended up replacing the entire welder because it was going to cost more for the feeder than an entire welder. If someone knows where I can get parts cheap, I'd still fix the old one. My new one has a replaceable whip, whereas the old one didn't. And YES, I did get a fire extinguisher, actually got 2. I can't imagine why I was so dumb as not to have one before. Soon as I get things up and running again, I will be moving that plate, and adding some bracing. Is using pillow blocks ok for the rear axle? Or is there a better solution?

 

[OzFab]

Hold up, you still haven't answered an important question:

Seriously? 20 guage is waaaay too thin, 16ga is pushing it... Before you do anything else, get a set of digital calipers & measure it!

I have to agree that you tubing choice may not be a good one. I have some of that tubing and its really thin. Props for being able to weld it. That thin stuff is not easy.

Everything hinges on the answer to that question...

 

[Poboy kartman]

I think I know what he's talking about and that stuff is super thin. Makes shipping from China cheaper, and all it has to do is resist wind force on a tarp, which it only does marginally. He should take that crap to the scrap yard and get what it's really worth- which isn't much. ......

 

[Cbreiter]

I know for a fact it's thinner than 16 gauge. I haven't measured it, but like I said I would guess about 20 gauge or thinner. Maybe I should just go for it and buy about 4 lengths of .188 wall 1x1 and scrap the other frame. What would you guys recommend for building it out of? I like the look of tubing, but it is a pain in the butt to try to make nice joints! Just was trying to use stuff I had laying around.

 

[mckutzy]

Go buy what you need, get square so it is easier for design and welding.