Differential Brakes (Will this Work?)

[Ryafor]

I'm trying to figure out how to setup brakes for an axel that has a diff. I'm aware I will need 2 but am not sure what parts actually spin or where each rotor would have to be placed. I apologize for my diagram. I used my cell phone to make it. Anyhow my differential is not centered so there is no room on one side of the shaft to put a rotor so I was thinking of putting it right on the diff opposite of the sprocket and then having another rotor on the shaft of the axel on the other side. I was thinking of flipping the axel also that's what the yellow arrow indicates. Blue is the sprocket, red are an idea as to how the rotors will be. I plan on using a hydraulic brake setup with a "T" sorta like the first picture to close the calipers on each rotor at the same time. So..... first pic, caliper setup, second pic is just to show how I plan on setting up the rotor on the differential side. Thire pic is my diagram of how i wanna lay it out. I'm wondering if my idea will work as I'm not exactly sure if the rotor has to be mounted on the axel to stop that side or not. So will this setup stop both wheels?

 

[Kelly Wood]

Let's see here.

Your last photo appears to be a lawnmower. With that said, how fast does this go and does it need that kind of braking power?

Assuming it is fast enough to need to disc brakes, from your photo it appears there isn't enough room to put a brake rotor/disc on the right, or wherever that chain driven unit ends up.

This means that "no" it won't work.

To answer your other questions: The spinning parts would have the rotor/disc on them. Assuming that's what you're trying to stop... the spinning parts... are also known as axles.

If you want to stop both, using what I think I see here, you might try figuring out how to mount one disc to that chain driven gear. If that's what drives the thing, just stop that & you should be good to go.

Just some thoughts. Good luck.

 

[Ryafor]

I'm not sure you understand what I'm trying to accomplish. It is/was a lawnmower. But it's like a go kart. Right now I'm just trying to get ideas how to add decent brakes bease I pLan on switching the engine to a 7hp horizontal engine wit a centrifugal clutch. Right now there isn't room but I'll cut away some of the metal or move the axel back further when I put in the new engine so there is more clearance for either a 60 or 72 tooth sprocket and rotors. There isn't room on the right for a rotor on the axel that's why I'm asking if I can mount the rotor on the differential and the other rotor on the axel. As stated I'm thinking of flipping the axel so the rotor on the differential will actually be on the opposite side. Diff will be sandwiched between rotor and sprocket then on the other side of the axel will be another rotor. The second pic I posted shows how I plan on putting a rotor and sprocket on the differential. Calculations say it will do about 45 km an hour. I don't think just one rotor on the differential at that speed with kids will be safe. It may work bur in the off chance 1 wheel is spinning faster when they hot the brakes I in vision some kind of dangerous donut happening. Below is what the mower looks like now. It has a vertical motor in it and the deck has already been removed.

 

[Ryafor]

Basically I'm wondering if I put a brake on the differential on the side I'm planning to and on the axel opposite I'd it will stop both wheels

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

To clarify what Kelly said: If the differential (axle) will turn with one sprocket, it will stop with one brake. You don't need 2 brake rotors, just mount one as shown in your picture #2.

 

[Ryafor]

To clarify what Kelly said: If the differential will turn with one sprocket, it will stop with one brake. You don't need 2 brake rotors, just mount one as shown in your picture #2.

Pretty sure that's not the case but I could be wrong. The shafts of the axel inside the differential can spin independently. I could be totally wrong as I don't really know much about this stuff. I'm thinking my idea won't work tho because I think to actually stop a specific side of the diff I would need the rotor to be on that shaft so I'm thinking that putting a rotor on the axel and on the differential would still just be like having 1 brake. Again I'm not certain that's why I'm asking. I'm just getting ideas and parts for now to do the work in the spring so I'm not shelling out a bunch of cash all at once

---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ----------

The differential will stop yes but the wheels and shaft inside on both sides will not is what I'm thinking

 

[Kokamo]

If you put a brake on the diff housing like in picture #2, you will have brakes. However, if you are braking and you are hard around a corner at the same time and then lift one tire off the ground, the tire off the ground will spin backwards and you won't have brakes....in that case, you would need 2 brake rotors if you didn't want that to happen...one on the differential and one on the axle.

~Joe

 

[Ryafor]

Thanks. I was going crazy trying to think of a situation where the tires would still spin but if they're both on the ground I should be good with just the one? That may be a problem but they'll just have to learn to drive it properly lol. They'll only get burnt once

 

[Kokamo]

You got it man. Yes, both on the ground, it will stop easy. One wheel off the ground, no brakes.

~Joe

 

[mckutzy]

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, of your situation...
Why not put a rotor on each wheel. Like most other diff equipped vehicles...???

 

[jrbrtsn]

For safety you need a rotor attached to the left & right axle 1/2 shafts. This because, as stated previously, with the rotor mounted on the diff carrier, you cannot produce any more braking force than 2x the tire with the LEAST traction. So, if one tire is on mud or ice (or anything slippery), you are in trouble.

 

[Ryafor]

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, of your situation...
Why not put a rotor on each wheel. Like most other diff equipped vehicles...???

Because I'm already confused enough how to go about this. it would be alot easier for me to figure out if the differential was in the middle but there's like no space on the axel beside it. I knew I should have just bought another drifter kart I saw that just needed new caliper pads. Woulda probably been way cheer but decided to work on this thing with the kids so we'd have a project but you knowledge is next to nil. I don't know what parts there are really or what they do etc. And I live in Canada so sourcing anything gets expensive. Pretty sure the axel is 3/4 inch. I'm thinking it may just be easiest to lock the differential. Not sure how to put a rotor on the wheels themselves if that's what yo mean

---------- Post added at 03:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

For safety you need a rotor attached to the left & right axle 1/2 shafts. This because, as stated previously, with the rotor mounted on the diff carrier, you cannot produce any more braking force than 2x the tire with the LEAST traction. So, if one tire is on mud or ice (or anything slippery), you are in trouble.

That was my original thought but there's no room on one side of the differential to put it on the axel.

 

[jrbrtsn]

If I were you, I'd get rid of the diff, and replace it with a one-piece axle.

http://www.bmikarts.com/Axles_c_194.html

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

You got it man. Yes, both on the ground, it will stop easy. One wheel off the ground, no brakes.

~Joe

Likewise, one wheel off the ground, no propulsion. Differential takes the path of least resistance. The point I was making was if one sprocket attached to the diff turns the wheels (gives propulsion), then one brake attached to the diff can stop the wheels. No need to over-think this.

 

[Ryafor]

If I were you, I'd get rid of the diff, and replace it with a one-piece axle.

http://www.bmikarts.com/Axles_c_194.html

I was originally thinking off just locking the differential. Would work the same an a ton cheaper i think. Locking it would save me having to buy the axel, hubs, lock collars etc plus shipping. Shipping can get expensive to Canada. I went to order a 1/4" spring from somewhere. The spring was $1.72 and they wanted $13.95 to ship it. **** thing woulda went in a standard envelope

 

[mckutzy]

You can get all you need to convert to live axle at the princess auto.
You won't need to get new hubs if the axles are 3/4" already.

 

[Ryafor]

Free is still better lol but I'll check it out. When I decide whether I'm going to go 10:60 or or 12:72 I'm most likely going to get my clutch from PA. What all will I need from PA? I'd rather get everything there. Most likely will lock the diff. It's easier and I don't have to dispose of parts.

 

[mckutzy]

Disposed of...... surly you jest......
One doesnt just dispose of un-needed parts... one starts a pile and contributes to it......

You'll need as a start.....
- An Axle that fits the hubs on the rim( measure the hub and go from there)
-Bearings to fit said axle. ( I cant really suggest much based on the pics you have shown so far, more pics could elaborate on the topic)
-Shaft collars(to fit axle)
-A sprocket hub( to fit axle and the size of sprocket for the chosen chain size, #35 or #40)
-A sprocket( of the correct chain size[see above]), these are a weld-on verity keep that in mind.
-A clutch(Pick a # and buy the appropriate size above)(make sure it is the right bore size for your motor PTO shaft)

-Brakes are difficult, as you can only buy a 1" bore disc, How ever a sprocket with a hub could more than adequately suffice as a disc.......
-A caliper(and bracket) for said disc, they have two types........ pay real attention to the actuation of these two...... (I had a real problem with my first build choice cause it was a bit cheaper at the time). choose the one that fits best for your frame....

 

[Ryafor]

Disposed of...... surly you jest......
One doesnt just dispose of un-needed parts... one starts a pile and contributes to.

Lol. I'm in a basement apartment. Can't. I'll have a look around at PA when I go for a clutch and chain. Think for now it's easiest to lock the differential and attach a sprocket and rotor to it once it's locked that way all I gotta buy is the rotor, sprocket, longer bolts and a caliper etc. My landlord lives upstairs so I'm lucky I have the kart here. If I could hoard I woulda spent $80 on a 110cc atv that only had a busted rear axel. I'll set it up the same as pic 2 I posted. Pretty sure that's the same differential I have.

 

[Ryafor]

I know someone that does small engine repairs tho. I'll see if maybe I can barter with him for a new axel and some bigger wheels if he gets any because once I swap the engines I'll have the transmission and old briggs engine that I'll need to get rid of and everything on the kart now is in great condition for something probably 15 years old.