Clone version question

[Ken]

I currently am using a HF Greyhound 196cc blue clone with the 5-bolt valve cover. Just ran into some part incompatibility because of differences in this particular version. It takes a different top plate than the one I purchased. I've seen red and yellow 196cc engines and am curious if some definitive source exists that will explain the differences.

I see the Predator 212cc also has different versions. Those variations would be nice to know as well.

Thanks

 

[landuse]

Someone will be along soon to help you out

 

[bob58o]

I see the Predator 212cc also has different versions. Those variations would be nice to know as well.

Thanks

Gen 1 Predator 212
Harbor Freight 69730
Shiny Valve Cover
25mm Intake Valve
24mm Exhaust Valve
5.5mm Valve Stems
Wedge Shaped Combustion Chamber
Dished Piston
Stud Mounted Rocker Arms
Uses Predator (Older style) Flywheels (some have gotten gx200 or 196cc clone flywheels to work)
Uses Only Predator (Older style) camshafts
Uses Only Predator (Older style) Side covers and side cover gaskets
Uses Only Predator (Older style) gas tanks and top plates.

Gen 2 Predator 212 HEMI
Harbor Freight 60363
Dull 4 sided Valve Cover
27mm Intake Valve
25mm Exhaust Valve
5.5mm Valve Stems
"Hemi" shaped combustion chamber with canted valves
Flat Top Piston
Shaft Mounted Rocker Arms
Uses Hemi or Kohler Flywheel.
Uses Hemi/gx200/196cc clone camshafts.
Uses Hemi/gx200/196cc clone side covers and side cover gaskets
Uses Hemi/gx200/196cc clone gas tanks and top plates

Gen 3 Preator 212
Harbor Freight 69730
Shiny Valve Cover.
27mm Intake Valve
25mm Exhaust Valve
5.0mm Valve Stems (no SS valve upgrades available at the moment, that I know of)
Wedge Shaped Combustion Chamber and improved ports over gen 1 Predators.
Has improved stock keepers and retainers
Don't know much else about the Third Generation 212's.
I think they use the Gen 1 gas tanks, side covers, camshafts.
I once read the the Third gen Predator 212 valve covers have rounded lips on the top and bottom, where the 1st generation 212s have straight tops and bottoms.

That post was exhausting and I never want to do it again. LOL
As far as red, yellow, blue.... I do not know. I only really know about Predators. And have only owned the Hemi versions. I assume if it is a true clone, then all Honda gx200 or clone parts will work. Some Hemi Predator parts (like the gas tank or top plate, camshaft, side cover,...) will fit. Older style Predator parts will not.

If it is a true clone, I'm guessing you got a top plate for an Older style Predator...
If it is not a True Clone, then I have no idea.

 

[Ken]

Great info on the 212 Predators! Thanks! I'd heard there was a lawsuit from Honda directed at the manufacturer of the 196cc GX200 clones so inline changes were made to the design. The blue Harbor Freight Greyhound features a unique side cover, valve cover and tank mount. Not sure of internals though. No idea about the red and yellow ones though.

 

[bob58o]

Great info on the 212 Predators! Thanks! I'd heard there was a lawsuit from Honda directed at the manufacturer of the 196cc GX200 clones so inline changes were made to the design. The blue Harbor Freight Greyhound features a unique side cover, valve cover and tank mount. Not sure of internals though. No idea about the red and yellow ones though.

Well that kind of sounds like the Non-hemi 212cc.
Uses unique side cover and tank mount. Maybe not unique.

Anyway, Call ARC RACING and they will know which top plate you need for sure.

 

[itsid]

a greyhound with five bolt valve cover I haven't seen so far.
for all I know the greyhound 196cc was a true clone
(meaning all parts from any other true clone and/or the original gx200 should fit)
IIRC it's a Lifan 168F (there should be a sticker of the mfg somewhere on the engine)
I know there are duromax engines with hemi heads (also blue)
not true clones, closer to the rato line of clones (mixed in some kohler and subaru spec parts)

You sure it's indeed a greyhound, or you simply said that because it's blue?
(since colors is not a good clue.. original hondas come in red, black and white; Lifans in red, blue, yellow and black; and basically any chinese mfg coats their engine in whatever color they like... I haven't seen non-black ratos tbh.. but I guess if someone like princess auto orders half a million engines they can still pick purple if they want to )

'sid

 

[Ken]

a greyhound with five bolt valve cover I haven't seen so far.

You sure it's indeed a greyhound, or you simply said that because it's blue?
'sid

I bought this engine many years ago from our friends at HF and never installed it. It had a Greyhound sticker on it but haven't found any Lifan identifiers on it yet. I did get the correct top plate and Walbro pump from ARC but they don't sell crankcase side cover or valve cover gaskets for this version but NR Racing does. So I'm all set there. Thanks for your reply.

 

[mckutzy]

What I have read the Princess Auto motors(Powerfist and their premium brand Pro-point ) are rebranded Ducar brand motors.

 

[bob58o]

I think the Powerfist, Powerhouse, LCT have 208cc.
70mm Bore. Same as Predator
54mm stroke. Same as Gx200.

I recall reading that these engines use different wrist pins than Honda’s/Clones/Predators.

---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------

I bought this engine many years ago from our friends at HF and never installed it. It had a Greyhound sticker on it but haven't found any Lifan identifiers on it yet. I did get the correct top plate and Walbro pump from ARC but they don't sell crankcase side cover or valve cover gaskets for this version but NR Racing does. So I'm all set there. Thanks for your reply.

Well don't leave us hanging. Which one fits?
The Predator Plate? The Honda/Clone/Hemi Plate? A different Plate?

 

[Ken]

Well don't leave us hanging. Which one fits?
The Predator Plate? The Honda/Clone/Hemi Plate? A different Plate?

The plate that I needed was not called out on other sites. ARC was the first one that specifically described a plate for the "blue" clone with 5-bolt valve covers. DJ-1157. I originally ordered an incorrect top plate for a generic 196cc clone. Did not work on my pre-2009 clone. Unfortunately the tank mounting bolts which hold down the top plate and tank are unique to the blue clone.

Not sure how to attach photos to posts, but suffice it to say the tank bolts on my clone attach fron the rear as opposed to the top. Explain the process of attaching images and I'll do so.

 

[bob58o]

At the bottom of this page there is a box that says "Quick Reply".
At the bottom of that box there is a button that says "Go Advanced"
Scroll Down to "Manage Attachments"
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---------- Post added at 07:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 PM ----------

Lifan 6.5HP Clone And HF 6.5HP Greyhound
motors with 5 bolt valve cover LF168F2B FL168F2A

http://stoutracingengines.com/Lifan 5 bolt clone.html

 

[itsid]

I bought this engine many years ago from our friends at HF and never installed it. It had a Greyhound sticker on it but haven't found any Lifan identifiers on it yet. I did get the correct top plate and Walbro pump from ARC but they don't sell crankcase side cover or valve cover gaskets for this version but NR Racing does. So I'm all set there. Thanks for your reply.

any number that's like 168F is usually a good indication for a Lifan clone...

Lifan 6.5HP Clone And HF 6.5HP Greyhound
motors with 5 bolt valve cover LF168F2B FL168F2A

http://stoutracingengines.com/Lifan 5 bolt clone.html

Ahaaa.. there you go, bob already did the "footwork" for you

'sid

 

[Ken]

Here are some images of my blue clone. Looking for some serial numbers. Notice in the second photo the way the tank mounts vs the mounting method for the top plate I ordered shown in the third photo.

 

[Ken]

Eureka! I found the serial number! Here’s a photo of it. And a photo of the kart on which it’s mounted.

 

[itsid]

So.. Lifan it is..

there's a top plate specifically for Lifan engines
(nrracing sells them for example.. IIRC it's an ARC plate)
I think it should fit your tank mounts
http://www.arcracing.com/dj-114x-arc-top-plate-throttle-station/
(select 1147... HF 5 bolt valve cover.. convenient description, not?)

'sid

 

[Ken]

So.. Lifan it is..

there's a top plate specifically for Lifan engines
(nrracing sells them for example.. IIRC it's an ARC plate)
I think it should fit your tank mounts
http://www.arcracing.com/dj-114x-arc-top-plate-throttle-station/
(select 1147... HF 5 bolt valve cover.. convenient description, not?)

'sid

1147 Already ordered from ARC and the incorrect one has been sent back. When I get the plate I'll install it with the Walbro pump, transparent fuel lines (including a return line to the tank,) the larger main and idle jets, and finally a new 60t axle sprocket. C'mon warm weather!!

Thanks to everyone for all the great info!