Carter Super Wheels restoration

[gmo1515]

Good morning all and thank you for letting me join the board! I have an old 2-seater Carter cart that I'm trying to get running again for my daughter. A little backstory is that my dad initially gave this to me for Christmas back in '86 a little shy of my 7th birthday. I proceed to drive the wheels off of it for a few years, did some modifications in the early 90's in an attempt to improve top end speed to bracket race it at some local drag strips (this was ever-so-slightly before the junior dragsters hit it big). Moving on into my college years, a younger cousin came over and I could tell he was smitten with it. I passed it to him but got it back a few years ago after his family decided to relocate to Indiana. Now I have a 7yo daughter and I'd like to shake off the rust and cobwebs from this thing and get it to run again for her.

I'm starting the teardown phase now and here are the problems I've encountered thus far:

Mystery model?: My dad acquired it secondhand from a friend of his and repainted it red so any original markings were removed and as a result I really have no idea what model it is. From this diagram I found (http://www.bmikarts.com/PDF/Carter-Bros/2305/2305.pdf) it appears to be a close match to a 2305 Super Wheels

Engine: Looks to be an 8hp-ish Wisonsin Robin. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to have any compression as the crank can be rotated by hand. Likely will replace it with a Predator 212.

Wheels: The right rear wheel has some rust issues near the valve stem hole and will likely need to be replaced. Are there any OE-style steel wheels out there that can work?

Steering Shaft: In short, it's frozen tight. Still applying some penetrating oil to get it loose. If nothing else we may have to heat the upper and lower sleeves up with a torch to free it up.

Rear Sprocket: Does anyone know what size sprocket that Carter would have used on the left-rear drive wheel. The original was replaced with a smaller one to speed it up (as mentioned earlier) but since my daughter is 7 I figured it would be best to keep the speed in-check for the time beingand put the drive ratio closer to what it would have been originally. Unfortunately we have yet to locate the original sprocket.

Any help or advise would be appreciated. I think this will be a fun project and a nice trip down memory lane with this old sled. Certainly some sentimental value with it.

Thanks,
Jason P.

 

[Texan]

Welcome, I have a similar Carter Kart.

Engine: Predator 212 is the cheapest & fastest way to get back on the road. Yeah a few people might say they are Chinese crap, but at that price point and reliability you can't beat it.

Wheels: Try to repair the Wheel. It is an oddball bolt pattern that matches the oddball Hubs. You will be very luck to come across another, short of finding another Carter Kart for parts.

Steering Shaft: Be patient. Apply your choice of penetrating oil daily and work it back and forth slowly. Heat helps too.

Sprocket: Mine has/came with a 54 Tooth Sprocket. I'm sure a 60 or 72 should fit, since it has a Jackshaft, you can also put different sprockets it to change you ratio.

 

[ol'joe]

If it were me, I would start a 7 year old out with the biggest and slowest driven sprocket I could fit on the kart without major mods. Most 7 year olds are thrilled to pieces with riding lawn mower speeds, and starting out slow will allow her time to develop skills without risking injuries.

She will be sure to let you know when it is not going fast enough.... ….Joe

 

[gmo1515]

Texan,
Mine has the 4.10 x 3.50 x 5" tires (they'll need to be replaced but at this point I'll probably buy the same sized replacements) so any sprocket will probably have that as my limiting factor on size is my guess. Looking on a thread that you had on yours, I'm thinking that I could drop the gear ratio back to, or close to, stock and if she wants to go faster later I may keep that sprocket on it and look into swapping the clutch to a CVT/Torque converter setup like yours. Perhaps keeping the larger sprocket will keep some grunt from a dead stop and let the variable ration from the belt drive take over for some additional top end as needed.

Joe,
I'm right there with you. At that age, I remember driving that close to the ground makes you THINK in your mind that going much faster than you really are. If it were strictly for me, well I'd pick up the speed a bit.......not that daddy won't be tempted to drive it every once in awhile for uh......quality control purposes.....

-Jason

 

[jmaack]

Cool back story and cool old cart. Welcome. I too am from the same city.

 

[gmo1515]

Jmaak, nice to hear there are some other locals. I'm originally from Tuscaloosa, moved over to Helena about 5 years ago. What kind of carts/bikes do you have?

I found out yesterday about the origins of the Wisconsin Robin engine that mine had. Most information I had found seemed to indicate that Carters were originally built with Briggs engines (maybe a Tecumseh in a few cases?) so the presence of the WR was really interesting to me. My dad talked with his friend who he acquired that cart for me way back when. He did indeed state that mine started out with a Briggs engine and he was the one who put the WR on it before we got it. No doubt something must have happened to the old Briggs at some point in the past. Knowing how his boys are (he had no less than 5 of them) and each one being wide open they were growing up, there might be a story there. It would not surprise me one bit if that original engine went out with its boots on in spectacular fashion!

Jason

 

[Texan]

Texan,
Mine has the 4.10 x 3.50 x 5" tires (they'll need to be replaced but at this point I'll probably buy the same sized replacements) so any sprocket will probably have that as my limiting factor on size is my guess. Looking on a thread that you had on yours, I'm thinking that I could drop the gear ratio back to, or close to, stock and if she wants to go faster later I may keep that sprocket on it and look into swapping the clutch to a CVT/Torque converter setup like yours. Perhaps keeping the larger sprocket will keep some grunt from a dead stop and let the variable ration from the belt drive take over for some additional top end as needed.

Joe,
I'm right there with you. At that age, I remember driving that close to the ground makes you THINK in your mind that going much faster than you really are. If it were strictly for me, well I'd pick up the speed a bit.......not that daddy won't be tempted to drive it every once in awhile for uh......quality control purposes.....

-Jason

GMO, Mine doesn't have a CVT/TQ. I had kept the original V-Belt setup with the corresponding V-Belt Clutch. It worked fine for awhile and belts were super cheap. I rebuilt it for my then 8 year old daughter and it carried her along just fine, and even dragged along my butt.

That being said, when other kids (and adults) rode it, they didn't understand that you couldn't do a lot of start & stopping, so the belts would get chewed up and even burnt thru a couple of cheapy clutches. Not sure why Carter set them up like this, but they are not the best way. I eventually swapped out the Pulley & Clutch with sprockets & chain. Works a lot better, and no more having to adjust the engine & jackshaft for belt stretch.

I've been wanting to put a TC on it, but after a couple of years of bombing around, it mostly sits only to be ridden on rare occasion.

 

[jmaack]

Jmaak, nice to hear there are some other locals. I'm originally from Tuscaloosa, moved over to Helena about 5 years ago. What kind of carts/bikes do you have?

I found out yesterday about the origins of the Wisconsin Robin engine that mine had. Most information I had found seemed to indicate that Carters were originally built with Briggs engines (maybe a Tecumseh in a few cases?) so the presence of the WR was really interesting to me. My dad talked with his friend who he acquired that cart for me way back when. He did indeed state that mine started out with a Briggs engine and he was the one who put the WR on it before we got it. No doubt something must have happened to the old Briggs at some point in the past. Knowing how his boys are (he had no less than 5 of them) and each one being wide open they were growing up, there might be a story there. It would not surprise me one bit if that original engine went out with its boots on in spectacular fashion!

Jason

I'm originally from pinson Clay area. moved down here back in 2011 when I was working in calera. decided I liked it and stayed. haha. I have a junk ct200u ex that I bought for 30 basically a frame stripped replaced most parts and put a stage 1 212 and torque converter on. It rips pretty good about 50 mph. Been a while since I have ridden as I got pulled over by alabaster month or so ago they said they didn't want to see me again. but yeah good times.

 

[gmo1515]

Got a friend to help press out the old bearings off the jack shaft and out of the hubs. Turns out that Carter apparently used the same size bearings on both. Unfortunately it looks like the old jack shaft bearings had locked up at some point. Looks like I’ll be hunting down a new shaft. Fortunately it doesn’t look like they are that expensive. It measures 9-3/4” long so the 10” ones I see should work.

 

[gmo1515]

Spent a little while prying off the wheel halves from the tires today. Bad news is that two wheels are rusted badly around the valve stem holes and a third had some cracking just outside of the area where the hub bolted up. Looks like I'm in for a new set of wheels. It appears that the 3-3/32" bolt pattern is a bit of an oddball. Any ideas for some new wheels?

Thanks,
Jason

 

[jonboy]

Did one several years ago. Check out my build in my profile. It might help to see what I did. As for the wheels I got some from BMI and redrilled them

 

[gmo1515]

New Wheels

It's been quite awhile since I've posted an update. By pure dumb luck I happened upon a guy who gave me a set of wheels for free. They are steel 2-piece wheels off of a a go cart that his son wrecked (more on that story in a moment). I went into a local power-sports store seeing if they had any similar wheels. This guy was in line with me and told me he had a set at home that I could have. They were not the Carter bolt pattern but since the wheel centers are flat it was fairly easy to drill a new bolt circle at roughly 45-deg from the existing holes. The tires have some wear but still have some life in them.

Also spent some time plug welding some pitted areas on the frame. Mostly this was on the inside of the driver side frame rail. After further investigation it looks like the front crossmember that the tilting front axle bolts to was rusted through on the bottom so it may be the time to cut that out and replace it with some fresh square tubing.

Now the back story on the wheels: As it was told to me, the guy's son who was approx 7 y.o. at the time was driving the go kart in the yard. The throttle cable came unhooked and when it did the engine hung wide open. The little boy no doubt had a look of fear in his face. His dad and sister start running after him yelling at him to "turn it off" referring to the kill switch. Well, in the boy's panic, he misheard their calls and thought that they meant "bail off" so he jumps off with the cart still running. He wasn't hurt but the cart continued on it's unmanned W.O.T. tear across two more yards and proceeded to crash into and attempted to climb a lamppost in a neighbor's yard. That hit was a mortal wound to the frame. He said he gave the engine to a friend but the wheels were still good so he took them off and stashed them in his garage for a number of years thinking "someone might want them one day". As it turns out he was right on that account, and so they became mine. He didn't even want any money for them!

 

[MattWll]

Good job. Good luck to you.

 

[gmo1515]

I took the hubs, jack shaft pulley, and steering wheel to get bead blasted today And have to say they came out quite well. On the way home I went by the auto parts store to pick up some rattle cans of primer and silver paint. While scanning the aisle I found this Rustoleum Chrome Silver paint which looked interesting. While not a replacement for plating by any stretch, I must say it is quite a bit different than a run of the mill silver. I kinda like it. The wheels are galvanized steel but have a touch of surface rust in a couple of places, so I give them a quick scuff, clean them, and give them about one coat before the can calls it quits.

Jason

 

[gmo1515]

This past week involved repainted the replacement wheels, pressing new bearings into the hubs and doing a little bit of surgery to the front end. During the tear down process I found that the front cross member behind the pivoting front axle had rusted through on the bottom in a few places. The tricky part was that most of the steel outlets I could find in the Birmingham area didn’t have any 1/16” wall, 1-1/4” square tubing that was less than 20ft long that they had on hand that they would sell me. Heck, all I needed was 22”. Finally found Metal Supermarkets over on the eastern end of downtown that was kind enough to do so. Old tube was cut out and welded in place. The travel limiters for the front axle pivot were cut off and transferred over to the new tube. By this point everything that could come off the frame had already been stripped so today it was hauled off to a powder coating facility that will media blast it and apply a fresh shiny red finish. We’ll cross our fingers and hope the end result will look as good as I think it will...

Jason

 

[5814SpeedCo]

My Super Wheels wasn't worth restoring like you are, I had to order just about every part on it so I have been turning it into a Carter Brothers Super Monster Wheels

 

[gmo1515]

Found some old photos of my cart

These were likely taken on Christmas Day 1986 the same day I got it. A couple of my cousins are taking a ride with me with my sister also making some laps on her big wheel.

 

[gmo1515]

Powder coating company called today and let me know the frame was ready. Now the reassembling process shall begin!

 

[gmo1515]

Been busy that past week or so gradually accumulating parts and reassembling this old thing.

And, as of yesterday 7/18/2020 it lives! Took my first drive in it in over 20 years.

A new seat cover is still getting made so that will be the finishing touch. Hopefully will have that in the next week or so. I had seen on one of the online order houses (either BMI or GPS) that had Carter seat cushions but they were all in black vinyl. Seeing how I live in Alabama, in the summertime it would take approximately 3.5 seconds before a black seat sitting outside in the sunlight would burn the everlovin' $%@* out of you, so I'm having an upholstery shop do up a cushion with a light colored vinyl seating surface with black edging.

Jason