Carter Brakes

[BostonDad21]

Hey all, hoping someone can help me out.
Kids wanted a go-kart so I picked up an old Carter 2333-3017 in great shape for short short money....I have rebuilt the engine, threw new tires on and did what I could with the steering....currently there are no brakes, I removed the whole pedal and band since it was making some awful sounds and discovered the drum was paper thin, bent and even split in one section. Everything I see says the stock drum is 4 3/4" with a 5"
band.....no problem finding the band online but striking out on this drum completely. Anyone have any suggestions or mods that can somewhat easily be done? Really trying to get this kart running and safe for the kids over the weekend, would any local places possibly have what I need? I'm in MA...any suggestions, experiences or info would be beyond appreciated. THANKS!!

 

[landuse]

Welcome to the forum!!!

Could you post a pic of the drum? Have you checked all the regular karting places?

https://www.bmikarts.com/
https://www.gopowersports.com/
https://www.gokartsupply.com/

 

[BostonDad21]

Sure, I will take one this afternoon.....after posting I did find gopowersports has what I need however with the COVID nightmare no idea how long it will take to care here, I went ahead and ordered however still really hoping I might be able to come up with something locally

---------- Post added at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 AM ----------

This may help, here is a link to the part diagram.
http://www.bmikarts.com/PDF/Carter-Bros/Model 2336-3017/2336-3017.pdf

 

[Karttekk]

Since Carter has been out of business for some time, parts availability is limited. You're lucky you can still find a drum for it. There are some parts you can retrofit or make work from other brands but your best bets are older Manco or American Sportworks (now American Landmaster) machines. Parts for those are slowly going away also though. Chinese buggy style karts are the new norm.

 

[BostonDad21]

Thanks everyone for your help, gopowersports actually has already shipped my order, very impressed. Another newbie question for you guys, I have tried and tried to get the steering right on this kart and have failed. First off while the turning radius is phenomenal both front tires rub the frame on sharp turns, assuming this is not normal. Whoever worked on this thing before screwed up the tie rod as the threads on each side are not reversed, I have taken them off and done everything I can but still have issues. The frame rubbing has gotten substantially better however now the whole thing shakes like crazy at full throttle, pretty scary. I have completely taken everything apart, cleaned and greased. The kingpins sit in nice and tight and have triple checked that all nuts and bolts are secured. Any suggestions.....another stupid question.....how can upload pics to the post lol.....only seem to be able to if the image is located on the web.....took tons of pictures to show the setup.

---------- Post added at 12:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

Figured it out haha

 

[Smerft85]

Do you have enough threads on the spindles to add a half inch to an inch of spacer? The front wheels look super close to the kingpin area, add as much spacer as you can to pull the wheel away from the frame, I always try to get the nut flush with the end of the spindle at minimum and use nylon locknuts.

 

[BostonDad21]

Thank you, don't know about an inch but could prob pull off a 1/2.
what should I use for a spacer? I have a big box of fender washers, could stack them or what a piece of pipe or something else work better?
Would this explain the intense shaking at full throttle? It gets so bad I can barely control.

 

[Smerft85]

Could have something to do with the shaking. You could stack washers but a chunk of thick wall pipe is about all that comes on most of them, it will help the tire not rub in a turn for sure, possible it will take some shake out of it too.

 

[Karttekk]

Are you sure those front tires are the correct size? They look awfully wide.

As far as the shaking, make sure you don't have a tight bearing somewhere or a bent axle. Maybe the previous owner added Green Slime to the tires to seal up any leaks and it's sloshing around in the tire. Check the tires for out of roundness or if you can try some other tires. Put the rear of the kart on jackstands and run it, see if something is wobbling. Process of elimination.

 

[BostonDad21]

Thanks guys, all 4 tires are new and the correct size. Fronts are tube tires on 2 piece wheel. Rears are tubeless. Took it all apart and found the inner bearings on 1 side are complete junk, going to replace all of them.......played around a bit more and got the steering acceptable.....had about 20 min of fun with the kids the dead stop.....tried restarting and when as I pull the pull cord the whole cart moves....not knowing much about what I am doing here i'm assuming the clutch is stuck....looks like the whole assembly is the original Comet 20 stuff. Should I just order replacements or can I just take apart and clean....i see there is after market stuff available for about 40 bucks cheaper than the Comet made.....whats my best bet here.....much thanks guys for all the help. Oh and I also found all the parts to just rebuild the entire steering assembly, after taking some measurements on the tie rod its certainly not stock.

---------- Post added at 01:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 AM ----------

On a side note I had every intention going into this that I would replace the Tecumseh 6 horse with a predator but after filter replacement, oil change and a new carb with throttle screw/mixture screw this thing is starting first pull and running great.....as with everything else on this cart can't seem to find any aftermarket engine upgrades, any ideas? Would like to at least get more airflow and possibly a muffler

 

[Karttekk]

You can try disassembling the drive system and cleaning it but if there's excessive rust or wear you're better off with new components.This vendor is reasonable and offers quality parts. Here are some generic replacement parts for the drive system along with some original Comet. I would upgrade to the 30 Series torque converter.

https://www.gokartsupply.com/asymapp.htm

 

[BostonDad21]

Awesome thank you. Of course went out this morning and was unlocked, still jerking when the clutch catches. Was looking at the Comet 30 last night, looks like no real modifications are required correct?

 

[Karttekk]

Should be a fairly easy swap. I use a 3/8" battery powered impact wrench when I change them, that way if you do have to hold one of the shafts from turning it isn't an issue. Make sure your keyways are clean and the keys fit good, pay attention to the drive clutch nut on the engine. Make sure it isn't crossthreaded and don't overtighten it. Once you strip out the crankshaft things get ugly. Run the nuts up until they're snug then give the gun a couple of quick "burps", that's all you'll need. The 30 Series belt is asymmetrical, the flat side faces the engine.

 

[Karttekk]

Meant to say be careful with the drive clutch bolt on the engine.

 

[BostonDad21]

So got the new drum and band installed but have encountered a new problem. Of course I misplaced the old band with the mounting bolt and clip so I had to improvise. Its pretty tight but spins and imagine after a brake in I should be ok.....The new issue is that the bearing on the other side seems to have shifted and I cannot for the life of me get it to move further down the axle so it can sit in the frame where it appears it should...any suggestions. Wondering if maybe it has always been like this and may be contributing to my shaking symptoms. The drive side is perfectly aligned and in place which was not the case prior to me replacing the brake.

 

[TwoTankTuk]

BostonDad,

First off - thanks for pinging my post Carter 2336 post awhile back, and I did post a reply to you there as well, so feel free to check that post out - and my apologies for not being as active as I should . Life's been a bit nuts...

Is the bearing seized to the axle on that right side? IF so - that could explain a lot. That typically happens when the bearing goes bad, heats up hot, and then locks itself to the axle - and since you said at least one of the other bearings has gone bad - that got me thinking...

Also, that drive chain is WAY too loose. It should have a tiny bit of slack in it, but nowhere near that much. Check the four bolts on the flat plate above the brake behind the seat on the driver's side - they may be loose, and that could shift the jackshaft / drive belt / chain alignment, etc.. as well as cause your chain to be loose like that.

Re the front steering pulling / being out of whack - I know I had the same issue. Mine turned out to be a combination of one of the front wheels had taken a "hit" during the previous owner's use - and they had bent the steering bracket on that side - and the threaded steering "tie rods" were WAY out of adjustment. I got mine back to reasonable drivability with a big honkin' adjustable wrench to reset the steering bracket, and a bunch of tweaking to the threaded "tie rods". And yeah, the combination of me being a relatively big guy on one side of the kart, coupled with a small steering wheel diameter probably doesn't help either..

Also, as I posted in my thread - check that brake rod for wear. Mine had a good bit of metal missing, most likely from rubbing on the edge of the brake drum - and I don't know if that is a perennial problem with the design. I used my Harbor Freight flux core welder to replace the missing material, and then filed / sanded it back to the correct rod diameter - a relatively easy fix. I'm working on a clamp design to keep that from happening again - but as with everything else - it's a matter of finding the free time...

Re the torque converter being stuck (the torque converter is bolted to the motor crankshaft) - have you taken it apart and cleaned it and re-lubricated it? I did that on mine (it needed it!), and it made a world of difference! Relatively easy to do as well...

Lastly, I'm in "Taxachusetts" too - out on the 495 beltway south of the Pike and I've got a few parts (including some brake drums I just ordered - wish I had known!) - but always good to know there's another local same model kart out there for comparison in case we need to see what the part *should* look like -or we just need local advice from someone who has attended the same school of hard knocks!

Who knows, maybe we should start a local Carter karting club?

Keep on Karting!

 

[Kent]

Sounds like the bearings should be replaced all the way around. That chain is obviously not connected to the converter. That kart wouldn't drive ten feet with that much slack in the chain. TwoTankTuk is right, you probably (almost certainly) need to do the regular service on the converter.

Seems like the previous owner rode and no doubt enjoyed the kart but probably did little or no maintenance. Sounds like you will have a better understanding of how to keep the kart up than the previous owner did. Once you get the big issues fixed it will all get easier. Hope to see how it comes out when your up and running.

 

[BostonDad21]

Thanks guys much appreciated...Should have mentioned I had the chain removed, it was too loose even when on however anyways....Since I last posted I have adjusted the jack shaft so everything lines up properly, replaced the driver clutch completely, replaced the driven springs and buttons and put on a new belt.....steering still sucks....better....but sucks......oh I also got that bearing freed up, just lubed the crap outta it and let it sit.....

The driver clutch and belt was done first....kart ran 100 times better after....I did notice the driven spring was beat and buttons were chewed up.....so I replaced them.....thinking I did something wrong....kart does not jerk during clutch engagement now but when you release the throttle it instantly feels like its dragging, almost pulling you back......not the brake rubbing, new band is broken in and not rubbing the drum at all. Belt is is tighter than the original but same size and freely moving around the driver brass bushing. UGHHH it's like owning a boat lol.

Oh and I did decide to pull the trigger on retiring the TEC.....unfortunately Harbor Freight wasn't on board.....apparently not a single store within 300 miles has had a 212cc in stock for weeks.....ordered online....4 days later got an email saying they are back-ordered for at least 22 days...its been about 2 weeks now...we will see...

I am going to post some pictures later today on the clutch setup....

TwoTankTuk, on board with the karting club lol......all I see around me a Chinese ATVs and bikes......Happen to have a decent motor that I can easily mod and a swap for the TEC? lol?

 

[BostonDad21]

Here are pictures, ended up putting the old belt back on....was in decent shape and being worn helped the issue a bit.

 

[Karttekk]

Sometimes, at least in my view, replacing everything new with a warranty makes more sense unless the piggy bank isn't cooperating. I would rather spend time riding my kart than refurbisihing older components. It's good to learn how things work though when you do take things apart. Those drives get hammered from heat, dirt and abuse. If you continue to have issues grab a new setup, it will take you 15 minutes to swap everything out.