Cart Confusion

[ekywildcat]

Need some opinions from people that know carts a lot better than I do. My grandson is tired of his Honda 50 and wants a go cart. Okay, I found a Carter Talon 150 cc that looks really good. From what I have found on this forum and others this is a motorcycle engine, GY6 and CVT setup. He says you have to start it with ether then it runs fine, I'm a pretty good mechanic, I'm sure I can fix that. The other cart I'm looking at resembles a Dingo. Has an old style flathead B&S engine, could replace with a Predator 6.5 hp if I need to. Needs some cosmetic work though. The Talon looks pretty complicated, but is probably a better cart right? The other looks to be pretty simple. Which way would you guys go? I like the Talon, but is it worth the hassle? Almost forgot price, the Talon I can get for around $400 the other for probably $200. Any opinion is appreciated.

 

[Hellion]

Well, one is a complicated buggy manufactured in China. The other might indeed be a Dingo and hence, a real go kart from days of yore, not to mention the Briggs.

I like Dingos and things that look like them. Everyone wants one because you can do so many things with them, road or off road setups, etc.

In case you didn't know...

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

Buy them both and you and kart around with your son. Much more fun in pairs.

 

[itsid]

yeah..
personally (and please keep in mind, that we really talk about personal preference here )
I like the Dingo (i.e. KARTS) much better than mini buggies (which the Talon is really)

IDK if your grandson wants to have someone else in the kart at all
someone that he needs to take care of at least or maybe even should listen to..
that's the exact opposite of driving a kart.

And while he could take a ride on his own in a two seater of course.. chances are (depending on number of siblings or friends, and most importantly the ability of his parents to let him ride alone) he can't as easily.

IDK.. I cannot tell what your grandkid is after, what his parents are like...
not even what Dingo you are actually talking about (that name was given to half a dozen different Manco karts even some two seaters)
Sooo

my advice would be to investigate your grandkids wishes.
let him point you to a kart he likes (maybe he likes two seaters.. maybe he wants full suspension... IDK)
And once the general layout is settled (1 or 2 seats, with or without suspension)
you can make a better decision.

I don't like the gy6es too much, not because the engine itself is bad or anything,
but none is the real deal (which in fact would be a Honda scooter engine)
All a chinese clones of that.
No two are identical for some odd reason.
So while some parts are more or less universal amongst gy6es; some are not!
And that's where the hassle begins.. especially when it comes to it's CVT
there are several different splined shafts around to fit the driver and driven to, more when it comes to the PTO shaft on the rear.. and if it has a Forward Reverse gearbox
you will have an even harder time finding replacement parts that fit.

The inferior design of the good old flathead B&S is beutifully simple..
can't find replacement parts.. slap on a predator and be done..
less power, less speed compared to a gy6 all true..
but it's sooo easy to maintain and repair

Now that being said:

both karts are for all I know good quality karts
(okay.. I'd call one a buggy rather than a kart but no less a good quality buggy )
And whatever option you choose you did nothing wrong.

I prefere the simpler and cheaper and easier to maintain Dingo personally.
but that should not mean a thing to you or your grandkid

'sid

 

[Hellion]

The inferior design of the good old flathead B&S is beutifully simple..
can't find replacement parts.. slap on a predator and be done..
less power, less speed compared to a gy6 all true..
but it's sooo easy to maintain and repair

Hey now, the Briggs flathead/L-head engine is old technology--I wouldn't say necessarily inferior.

Maybe in Deutschland parts for them are scare, but not here stateside.

Less speed and power compared to a GY6, sure, apple and oranges. But the collective wisdom from the racing circuit plus a healthy aftermarket of performance parts allows many to develop 20+ horsepower. That's most likely on methanol, but still.

Can we claim an equal, easily obtained/sourced, performance-oriented aftermarket for the GY6?

 

[itsid]

hehe, I love my 5hp flathead as much as the next guy,
but the design is meant to be simple, reliable, failproof.
which is not easy to achieve to be frank,
but it's inferior to modern day motorcycle or scooter engines.
when it comes to power per combustion volume, efficiency etc. pp.
it's old, it's clunky, it's inefficient... it's lovely

just think about it, the 5hp flatty has 13cui.. 213ccm 5hp..
a predator has 212ccm and spits out another one and a half horses
the gy6 has 150ccm and produces anywhere from 8.5 up to 13 horses.

Anyways, no some parts are no longer available for older flatheads,
like the gasket kit for my carb
And that's not a regional thing

and jaja blödsinn.. if it was a 13hp flatty sure.. 20hp no problem, a 5hp.. nope
not for more than maybe an hour until it has to be rebuilt.
that's not apples and oranges, that's turtles and mayflies
Also I wasn't talking about "performance upgrades" I was talking about maintenance and repairs. (stock parts, original if possible, aftermarket where impossible)
but not billet flywheels, different carbs and stinger exhausts or such.

Aftermarket for the gy6 is terrible
the label again is from the Honda model palette (what's now the Honda 150 PCX engine)
and it's been butchered under a hundred million brands by several taiwanese and chinese companies over the last two decades or so.
Everyone changed a tiny little bit and no two parts from two manufacturers are actually the same.
Which manufacturer actually made what engine is nearly impossible to find out.
it's much less "consistent" as the design of the GX200 clones for example.

Performance parts is mainly big bore kits and maybe a few CVT internals (rollers and springs)
and CDI ignition parts. And that where the consistency ends already.
Just look around and you'll find complaints about non fitting variators, gearboxes, shafts and internal gear reduction.

So no, both have serious drawbacks,
if the flatty is young enough, it's much easier to find all the parts you could ever need..
if it's old you may need to find a substitutional part, since some replacement parts are no longer available.
(and some are as expensive as a new predator, hence my comment above)

'sid

 

[B_Bimmer]

The only solution I can see is buy both. That's what I would do.

 

[ekywildcat]

yeah..
personally (and please keep in mind, that we really talk about personal preference here )
I like the Dingo (i.e. KARTS) much better than mini buggies (which the Talon is really)

IDK if your grandson wants to have someone else in the kart at all
someone that he needs to take care of at least or maybe even should listen to..
that's the exact opposite of driving a kart.

And while he could take a ride on his own in a two seater of course.. chances are (depending on number of siblings or friends, and most importantly the ability of his parents to let him ride alone) he can't as easily.

IDK.. I cannot tell what your grandkid is after, what his parents are like...
not even what Dingo you are actually talking about (that name was given to half a dozen different Manco karts even some two seaters)
Sooo

my advice would be to investigate your grandkids wishes.
let him point you to a kart he likes (maybe he likes two seaters.. maybe he wants full suspension... IDK)
And once the general layout is settled (1 or 2 seats, with or without suspension)
you can make a better decision.

I don't like the gy6es too much, not because the engine itself is bad or anything,
but none is the real deal (which in fact would be a Honda scooter engine)
All a chinese clones of that.
No two are identical for some odd reason.
So while some parts are more or less universal amongst gy6es; some are not!
And that's where the hassle begins.. especially when it comes to it's CVT
there are several different splined shafts around to fit the driver and driven to, more when it comes to the PTO shaft on the rear.. and if it has a Forward Reverse gearbox
you will have an even harder time finding replacement parts that fit.

The inferior design of the good old flathead B&S is beutifully simple..
can't find replacement parts.. slap on a predator and be done..
less power, less speed compared to a gy6 all true..
but it's sooo easy to maintain and repair

Now that being said:

both karts are for all I know good quality karts
(okay.. I'd call one a buggy rather than a kart but no less a good quality buggy )
And whatever option you choose you did nothing wrong.

I prefere the simpler and cheaper and easier to maintain Dingo personally.
but that should not mean a thing to you or your grandkid

'sid

Sorry it took so long to get back, been really busy with different things. Appreciate all replies, Sid put a lot of thought in his and I appreciate that. About as soon as I hit the post button, I knew the Talon wasn't an option, too complicated. I'm going with a simple cart. I like the single seater, but I haven't been able to get back in contact with the guy yet. I've found other options though. Found a good deal on a Hornet that I like the looks of. It's close, so I can go check it out, the lady didn't know what kind of motor it has. Pictures of it looks to be all stock. So I guess Subaru from what I've found out. I have spotted a 420cc Predator on CL though. R&P steering, needs some tires, I'm getting it pretty cheap though. I'll be needing advice on tires, I'd like to go a little taller and wider in the back without throwing off the gearing to much. Again thanks much.

 

[Bubba_Z]

Post what you end up with (With pictures) Then, people here will "Razz you and pull your chain" then help you in ways you can only imagine. My advice...KISS. (Keep it simple stupid)

 

[ekywildcat]

Okay, let's see if these pictures worked.

 

[ekywildcat]

Hallelujah!!!! It worked. I've racked by brain for two days to figure that out. Anyway, I pulled the trigger on the Hornet. Real happy, got it for $200. It had been sitting longer than the lady said, but that's okay. I was cleaning the carburetor and the inlet was plugged so bad a wire wouldn't go through it. I had to clamp a small drll bit in a set of vise grips and drill it out. The big long jet under the fuel bowl wouldn't come out, so I sprayed and blowed and cleaned the best I could and put it back on. It ran good at half throttle, pop at wide open and wouldn't idle.

Took it back off, and of course the gaskets fell apart this time. I live in the boonies and Briggs parts are all anyone keep in stock. Ebay had them, week wait though. So I did what any red blooded American would do and ordered a Chinese carb and gaskets off Amazon. Two day service. Installed today and runs great across the RPM range and idles great.

The brake and gas pedals are a little stiff, taking them apart tomorrow to clean and lube them up. Brakes aren't working, I'm going to try bleeding them first and hope that fixes them. If not, I guess I'll rebuild master cylinder and caliper right?

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Kansaskart]

So what engine is that?

---------- Post added 06-16-2017 at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-15-2017 at 11:53 PM ----------

Kinda tired, if thats a 420 might wana exercise some caution it is your grandson. Lol.

 

[itsid]

So what engine is that?

---------- Post added 06-16-2017 at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-15-2017 at 11:53 PM ----------

Kinda tired, if thats a 420 might wana exercise some caution it is your grandson. Lol.

How about reading the label on the engine telling us it's a Robin Subaru SP 170..?

'sid

 

[Kansaskart]

How about reading the label on the engine telling us it's a Robin Subaru SP 170..?

'sid

Lol! I did look at it last night I couldn't see it. I do now. Sounds likely lol. When I was 10 my dad and uncle took turns push starting me on a twin mac kart and never had anything but beer to drink on our outings. I turned out just fine haha.

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

Beer, gas and speed. Ah childhood.

 

[ekywildcat]

So what engine is that?

---------- Post added 06-16-2017 at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-15-2017 at 11:53 PM ----------

Kinda tired, if thats a 420 might wana exercise some caution it is your grandson. Lol.

Yeah like 'sid said it's a 6 hp Subaru. Runs real smooth, haven't got to try it out yet. The master cylinder was junk, so got one on the way. Luckily the caliper and pads were fine. Just cleaned it and lubed the slider pens and put it back on.

Haven't took the cover off the TC, all I know about them is what I've read, it seems to be working okay. It doesn't try to pull at an idle and seems to really want to take off when you hit the gas a little. Think I should just leave it alone for now, or clean what I can without taking it apart and spray the moving parts with some WD-40?

 

[itsid]

NOO!

Do not spray WD40 anywhere near the TC.
the sheaves that make contact with the belt need to be perfectly clean and smooth and free of grease and oil of course.
and even if you put a drop in the center only, it'll spread.

For maintenance, (after cleaning) just dry lube the internals of the driver, maybe the inside of the bronze bushing.

'sid

 

[ekywildcat]

:

NOO!

Do not spray WD40 anywhere near the TC.
the sheaves that make contact with the belt need to be perfectly clean and smooth and free of grease and oil of course.
and even if you put a drop in the center only, it'll spread.

For maintenance, (after cleaning) just dry lube the internals of the driver, maybe the inside of the bronze bushing.

'sid

Yeah, I should have known WD-40 wasn't a good idea in a TC. Sometimes, I type faster than I think. I found some good info on a website about TC maintenance, said to watch the wear plugs to prevent costly repairs. So I may take a look at it pretty soon.

Got the master cylinder on, brakes bled, wife and grandson tried it out, really performed well. GS a little afraid of it now, he'll come around.

 

[Hellion]

Good choice on that buggy after all is said and done. Sounds like a good family vehicle; you did well.

 

[ekywildcat]

Good choice on that buggy after all is said and done. Sounds like a good family vehicle; you did well.

Thanks, yeah I'm happy with it. He's wore it out last couple days. Nothing do him but to ride me and his daddy, we go about 220 each, that's around 300 lb in the cart, makes me nervous. It handles it well though, but has to be hard on the TC and belt.

Been lot's of fun working on it, I may try to find another one.