cant drift

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sYc

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Hello i ve made a go kart with handmade frame and 400cc suzuki engine. It works really well and it accelerates perfect but when i turn the steering wheel starts the problems. when i turn the wheel to drift the front external wheel start to bounce.. can anyone help me? :worried2:
excuse me!
 

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bighead

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How are your wheel bearings and king pin bushings?

The Inside wheel bouncing shouldn't stop you from sliding.

Spot on Sideways. Look at the small king pin bolt coming up thru that larger hiem/spindle? There has to be play there right? Thats a pretty big heim.

400cc street bike engine? You got bigger balls than me friend.

 

Doc Sprocket

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I strongly suggest that before you die, you re-do your frontend. That simply isn't up to the task of keeping your @ss alive with that much power. No offense.

Are you saying it won't drift at all, or that when you drift, the frontend gets hairy? 400cc should drift a kart with no front wheels...
 

porsche930dude

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wow that looks safe up to about 3mph! I dont think that would last with a 2.5hp briggs lol check out that tie rod. for a car tire no less. thats somthin
 

sYc

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It has ackerman,it steers like a go kart the one wheel a llittle more than the other.
The wheel bearings are fine. There is nothing loose!
 

sYc

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Spot on Sideways. Look at the small king pin bolt coming up thru that larger hiem/spindle? There has to be play there right? Thats a pretty big heim.

400cc street bike engine? You got bigger balls than me friend.


Its steel 10.9 screw and it has a spacer through that uniball there is no play there.
 

sYc

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wow that looks safe up to about 3mph! I dont think that would last with a 2.5hp briggs lol check out that tie rod. for a car tire no less. thats somthin

I went about 60 mph with this! there is no problem going straight trust me! :auto:
 

Doc Sprocket

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The more I look at that picture, the less I can figure out what's holding the frontend together. Too much shear load on that rod end/kingpin thingy. I know you're new here, and it is not my intention to insult you (the fact that it runs and drives is a testament to your abilities), but that frontend has got to go. Hang aroung the forum for awhile, gathering info. There's a lot to be learned here- gather the information you need, chop that frontend off, and rebuild it to be safe at those kinds of speeds using standard design convention. There is no thrill kill like a trip to the ER.
 

JHen

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I would definitely remake that front end. Your spindle should be as short as possible to reduce the leverage the tire has on it when it hits a bump and wants to go backwards and up so it doesn't bend it something fierce.

You also have a huge scrub radius, which is probably a primary factor in your lack of being able to drift.

I would also remove the space and get a bolt with a shank long enough to fit through the spindle. That little bolt is going to snap, especially since it is grade 10.9, which means it is a hardened alloy, which means it won't bend. It will just snap once it meets its threshold.

Your tie rods are also pretty skimpy.

It doesn't look like your Ackerman is not set right either, nor your king pin inclination. Here is what it looks like now, and it is not good.



Obviously, I'm guessing on the right tire line, but the left tire line is no where close to the center of the rear wheels. You do have some, but not enough for the tires to turn at the correct radii. I suspect this is probably causing your bouncing as the outside tire isn't turning a big enough radius in order to be pointed into your drift, so it is being dragged along and this is causing it to bounce.

Your king pin inclination is also giving you a big scrub radius, which is probably also contributing to your poor steering and drift performance. You have almost zero inclination and with such a long spindle, this is giving you a HUGE scrub radius. Instead of your tires rotating on the spot when you turn, I bet they turn a big circle. Your king pin should point directly into the center of where your tire contacts the ground. Yellow is the angle you have now, and the red is what it should look like.



My recomendations:

You must remake your spindles. You need to figure out the correct angle to have your king pin at. You need to run a string from your king pin back to the midpoint between your rear wheels. Where your tie rods meet the steering arm bit of the spindle is along that line. You can have it in front of it, but instead of the arm pointing in like it would if it were behind the tire, it will be pointing out.

Your spindle needs to stick out as little as possible and be as thick as possible. Your king pin needs to be as thick as possible as well. Your tie rods should also be stronger. If you hit a bump wrong at speed, you are going to have a very very bad day.

If you give me the inside diameter of the bearing on the tire, the width of the tire, the diameter of the tire, and the distance that the bearing is offset from edge of the tire on the inside, as well as the distance between the centers of your rear tires and the distance from the center of rear tire to the center of the front tire, I could make you a drawing of what I think your spindle should be.
 

r97

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i would also suggest you just re-make your spindles, i ndon't like that hiem joint and the tiny bolt supported only from underneathe, also the pitman arm on the spindle could be moved over to be inline with the king pin pivot.

make your new spindles in this style, with correct angles (mentioned above), and bushings.


____________________________________________

also, please make/get new tie rods and hiems.
 

sYc

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Thank you all for your answers! i have posted a pic to see the angle of the wheels. Jhen can you tell me with this pic what is wrong? the inner wheel turn to much and the external not? Where do i measure to see if the ackerman is ok? (wheel to wheel?) The king pin can be up to 25mm. I will change it! About the measurements i will try to send them until Saturday . I understand that with no geometry there is no steering.. I want to remake the spindles and i have searched a lot about this part but i dont trust welding a screw as above to hold all the weight. The "spindles" that i have put can hold my and karts weight together! If there is a better solution about that ,that would hold i will change the front system immediately.
(there are no bumps where i am riding it!) :)
 

sYc

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Obviously, I'm guessing on the right tire line, but the left tire line is no where close to the center of the rear wheels. You do have some, but not enough for the tires to turn at the correct radii. I suspect this is probably causing your bouncing as the outside tire isn't turning a big enough radius in order to be pointed into your drift, so it is being dragged along and this is causing it to bounce.

Your king pin inclination is also giving you a big scrub radius, which is probably also contributing to your poor steering and drift performance. You have almost zero inclination and with such a long spindle, this is giving you a HUGE scrub radius. Instead of your tires rotating on the spot when you turn, I bet they turn a big circle. Your king pin should point directly into the center of where your tire contacts the ground. Yellow is the angle you have now, and the red is what it should look like.

the red line shows the line that tire should follow when turning?:confused:
 
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